Jeff Keady and Jonny Craig: Pastors, Leaders, Bloggers, Podcasters, and Encouragers

200churches Podcast: Ministry Encouragement for Pastors of Small Churches

Jeff and Jonny are pastors who want to encourage pastors of “smaller” churches. All most pastors see online are the churches that have grown into the thousands in just a few years, the ones that spread out around the city through multiple services an
200churches Podcast: Ministry Encouragement for Pastors of Small Churches


Jeff and Jonny are pastors who want to encourage pastors of “smaller” churches. All most pastors see online are the churches that have grown into the thousands in just a few years, the ones that spread out around the city through multiple services and multiple campuses. The ministry leaders with the most influence are the mega church pastors with mega ministries, staffs, and dollars. Praise God for what He is doing in these large and influential churches! We benefit from their vision and influence. Jeff and Jonny know that there are hundreds of thousands, that have 200 or less in attendance. The work of these pastors and ministries can get lost in the shuffle, and they want to encourage, equip, support, inspire, and cheer on the pastors of 200churches – those churches with around 200 people, give or take a hundred or two! When they talk with guests like N.T. Wright, Scot McKnight, Dan Reiland, Carey Nieuwhof and so many more, they always turn the conversation to small church pastoral ministry. With humor, passion, conviction, and care Jeff and Jonny share methods and inspiration for the small church pastor. If you are a lay, bi-vocational, or solo pastor, the 200churches Podcast is for YOU!


Episode 345 - Quadrant Two Opportunities with Jeff Keady

Mar 23, 2020 775


Jeff shares how he plans to approach the coming months and how you can too!

Monday Morning Pastor

Mar 16, 2020 678


Special short episode. Personal words from Jeff. 

Episode 344 - Pastoral Leadership in a Time of Crisis Part 2 with Jeff & Jonny

Mar 13, 2020 1003


Jeff & Jonny talk about doing ministry in light of the social upheaval with the Coronavirus pandemic. Pastors have a great opportunity that we should seize - we have been trying to convince our church family for years that the building is not the church, THEY are! Now, we have a change to prove it in real life! A raw, uncut, and unedited conversation Jeff and Jonny had on Friday afternoon, March 13, 2020. Yes, Friday the 13th!

Episode 343 - Pastoral Leadership in a Time of Crisis

Mar 12, 2020 949


Jeff speaks from the heart about the opportunity pastors have as they lead in the midst of the Coronavirus crisis.

Episode 342 - Ditch Disappointment and Learn To Dream Again with Josh Gagnon

Feb 21, 2020 3541


Josh Gagnon from joins us to talk about how to recover the ability to dream big dreams for God again - like when you were younger and believed God for everything?! Get it back! Learn to dream again.

Josh and Jeff talk extensively about the hope-filled message of his book: It's Not Over - Leaving Behind Disappointment and Learning To Dream Again.

Episode 341 - Wise Pastors Seek Help with Ian Borkent

Feb 17, 2020 2443


Ian Broken is the pastor of a C3 Church in the Netherlands and talks with Jeff about his experience over the last 13 years taking a church of 60 singles and turning it into a church of 450 with families, volunteers, and teams! So practical & encouraging!

Episode 340 - Ideas For Fresh Expressions of Your Church with Chris Morton

Feb 8, 2020 3001


Chris Morton from joins Jeff today to talk about innovative ways for church growth and church planting for the 21st century. Jeff and Jonny recorded in person for this very practical episode! 

Get Chris' FREE E-Book at Also check out the Fresh Expressions National Gathering at, and some ideas for the dinner church approach Chris mentions in the episode at

Episode 339 - Unvangelism with Garry Poole

Feb 1, 2020 3727


Garry Poole from OneLife Advisors joins the guys to talk about an approach to outreach that Jeff terms "unvangelism". Anyone in any church can take this approach to reaching people with the Gospel. You can find Garry at or email Garry at

Episode 338 - Wrestling the Assimilation Monster with Jeff and Jonny

Dec 31, 2019 2052


Jeff and Jonny are live in person with each other for this last episode of 2019! Assimilation is the monster pastors must wrestle with on a weekly basis, unless we delegate to someone more capable... a thought provoking episode! Enjoy!

We referenced Greg Curtis a number of times. Here is a link to his site on Assimilation:

Episode 337 - Leadership Lessons For Pastors From An MK Turned International Missionary with Dave...

Nov 28, 2019 4936


This is a long form conversation with a great leader and international worker (missionary) who shares leadership lessons from a lifetime of missions and ministry. Lessons from growing up an MK and now a veteran missionary himself. Listen at least twice!!

We references two episodes that are a sure bet for a second listen - one with our good friend Dave Ronan, and another with Greg Curtis. Here are the links:

This episode is sponsored by If you are ready to transform your health in 2020, listen to Jeff's story at

Special Episode - 2 Minute Leadership Lesson for Pastors from Episode 337!

Nov 28, 2019 154


Three leadership dynamics that make for a healthy church - observations from a veteran missionary who has the unique opportunity to visit many churches while on home assignment. Here is his perspective - enjoy and learn...

Episode 336 - N.T. Wright On His Future Plans, Brexit, and Small Church Ministry

Nov 5, 2019 4324


Dr. N.T. "Tom" Wright joins Jeff and Jonny again to talk about his heart for Scripture, how he practices devotions, thinks about spiritual formation, views Brexit and cultural upheaval, and thinks about ordinary sized church ministry. He even offers a free course for 200churches listeners! Here's the link to your free course on N.T. Wright Online!

Episode 335 - Bivocational Ministry with Jake Fierberg

Oct 30, 2019 2948


Pastor Jake Fierberg is a bivocational pastor in Aurora CO. He talks with Jeff and Jonny about the blessings and challenges of working a secular job and pastoring a small congregation. This is a FANTASTIC episode - encouraging and inspirational! Jake has been a listener to the podcast for over five years and is now a personal friend of Jeff and Jonny... and maybe even N.T. Wright (more on that in a future episode!)

Episode 334 - The Art of Neighboring with Dave Runyon

Oct 2, 2019 1671


Jeff and Jonny speak with Dave Runyon, the author of The Art of Neighboring. You can find Dave's work at This was a fun episode for the guys to record LIVE with Dave!

Episode 333 - Dynamic Advice For Effective Visitor Follow Up with Jon Dunwell

Sep 5, 2019 2174


Jon Dunwell has been in ministry for 25 years from Student to Senior Pastor in churches small and large. He is a John Maxwell Certified Speaker, Trainer, and Coach. Jon talks with Jeff in this episode about effective follow up for first time guests, and gives detailed advice for how you can begin to improve your follow up of first time guests beginning this coming weekend! You can find John at

Episode 332 - One Pastor's Unbelievable Health Transformation Story with Scott Buell

Aug 28, 2019 3962


Pastor Scott Buell was tired, hopeless, out of shape, overweight, and frustrated with himself. He could not manage his diet or health. After listening to Episode 332 of 200churches, he took action. What he has experienced is amazing! This is his story.

If you are interested and want more information on how to succeed in your own personal health transformation - click here and fill out this form. Jeff will contact you...

Episode 331 - Are You Running On All 8 Cylinders?

Aug 22, 2019 2067


Jeff reviews 8 areas of our lives and ministry that we can evaluate as we enter into a new church year. Jonny gives his input on the front and back of the episode as the better looking Millennial of the two!

Episode 330 - Redemption Is From The LORD with Gabe

Jul 31, 2019 2678


Jeff met Gabe in San Salvador, El Salvador's capital city. They quickly became friends and Jeff was certain that Gabe had a message for our 200churches pastors. So late one night they sat down, put Jeff's iPhone between them, and recorded this raw, unedited conversation. This is Gabe's story. A story of tragedy, grace, and redemption. A story of HOPE. We know you will be both encouraged and challenged by it. Here it is, unedited, exactly as it was recorded...

Episode 329 - A Church Progress Report from the Yukon Territory with Jeremy Norton

Jul 27, 2019 3959


Jeremy Norton, pastor of MountainView Church in Whitehorse, Yukon CANADA joins us after two years more of ministry to give us an update on how he is doing pastoring his 200church in Whitehorse. Name change and salvations are a couple items we discuss...

Episode 328 - How Pastors Grow with Dan Reiland

Jul 15, 2019 3807


Dan Reiland, Executive Pastor of 12Stone Church in Atlanta GA, joins us yet again to share wisdom, inspiration, education, and perspective on what pastors deal with in 2019. Jonny joins Jeff for the front and back of the episode, and Jeff and Dan fill the middle. This is both encouraging and inspiring! Enjoy!

Episode 327 - One Year Citylight KC Church Plant Progress with Jason Wilson and Eric Carpenter

Jul 11, 2019 3030


Jeff and Jonny hang out with Jason and Eric, co-pastors of the Citylight KC Church plant in Kansas City MO. This is a one year check up on their ministry progress and contains some great wisdom and encouragement from two great ministry colleagues!

Episode 326 - We Can Lead Like Jesus Led with Mark Strauss and Justin Irving

Jun 28, 2019 3359


Strauss and Irving joined Jeff and Jonny recently to talk about leading like Jesus, in the church. These guys are authors, Ph.D's, and seminary professors and they speak with the guys about their new book on biblical leadership.

Episode 325 - Rethinking Communication In Your 200church with Phil Bowdle

Jun 7, 2019 2825


A great conversation with Phil Bowdle, Creative Arts Pastor at West Ridge Church in NW Atlanta, and author of Rethink Communication - A Playbook to Clarify and Communicate Everything in your Church. Instructive and helpful!

Episode 324 - Small Churches and HOPE with Rob Douglas

Jun 1, 2019 3345


Rob Douglas, denominational leader and pastoral coach, joins Jeff to talk about what impacts small church pastors, and just a little bit about how we can encourage one another in ministry, as Jeff and Rob did for each other in this episode!

Episode 323 - The Thrill of the Launch with Josh Park

May 18, 2019 2722


Josh Park from BranchLife.Church talks with Jeff and Jonny about the adventure of launching a church, with all the prayer and work that goes with it! Josh gives a ton of great advice and counsel to church planters in this episode. He talks about the work, the drama, the numbers, the priorities, and the people that it takes to pull off a great launch of a new church plant. Finally, he talks about the very personal struggle he overcame as he moved closer to the launch date! Enjoy!

Episode 322 - Wisdom From A Seasoned Pastor with Bill Larson

May 10, 2019 3089


Pastor Bill Larson spent over 40 years in full time pastoral ministry, then led and cared for pastors for years. He is a pastor's pastor, and Jeff got to sit down and talk with him about his long life and love of ministry! A classic!

Episode 321 - What It Means To Love Anyway with Kayla Craig

Apr 18, 2019 1858


Jonny is joined by a special guest--his wife!--to talk about her work for Preemptive Love and the meaning behind their slogan "Love Anyway." They chat about podcasts, talk about the risk of loving, crossing the boundaries of "us vs. them", and what pastors can learn from storytellers. We know you'll be challenged and encouraged by this episode as you're pressed to think about the ways God is calling you to love your community.

Episode 320 - Sometimes Pastors Need the Most Help with Jeff Keady

Apr 11, 2019 1673


Jeff shares personally what he has learned over the past six months, and challenges pastors to take steps toward healing and wholeness, in whatever areas they need to. Maybe it's drugs, pornography, overeating, flirtatious relationships, an affair... whatever it is! 

He also shares a simple step you can take to counsel yourself first!

Take action pastor! It's YOUR life, not your church's life. You don't belong to ministry - you belong to Jesus. Take whatever action you need to, and Jeff will encourage you to do that.

Episode 319 - Serving At Saddleback with Henty Van Der Merwe

Apr 5, 2019 3012


Henty Van Der Merwe joins Jeff and Jonny for this delightful episode! Henty is an Executive Assistant to Pastor Rick Warren at Saddleback Church and he shares a peek into his world, and through him, into the world of Saddleback's ministry, and Rick's ministry as well. Henty is a sharp young man. You'll enjoy him!

Episode 318 - N.T. Wright Encourages Small Church Pastors

Mar 27, 2019 3313


Our most downloaded episode of the 200churches Podcast is pulled from the vault and re-aired on this 318th episode! The Rev. Dr. N.T. Wright from Scotland joins Jeff and Jonny to talk all things ministry and small churches, and a bit of England... Join Dr. Wright at NTWrightOnline!

Episode 317 - Building Hope For The Broken with Todd Grant

Mar 21, 2019 3295


Todd Grant from the Watts Powerhouse Church in South Los Angeles joins Jeff to talk about the work of God in his urban ministry. Gangs, broken lives, broken families, etc. God is working! This is a very encouraging episode!

Episode 316 - Ministry - Not Programs & Curriculum but Communication & Relationships

Mar 14, 2019 2692


A classic Jeff & Jonny episode! Jonny postulates a foundational thought on ministry and then he and Jeff dive deeper into it. Generally about what ministry is and isn't. This is a fun, friendly episode where two colleagues share common passion - ministry!

They reference this UnSeminary Podcast episode with Greg Curtis! Click on both links - trust us, you need both of them! Listen and learn.

Episode 315 - One More Episode On Change Management in the Church

Mar 6, 2019 2722


Dave Jacobs from joins us to talk about the importance and process of leading change in your church. Dave was live in our Des Moines studio with Jeff and Jonny and this is a lively and encouraging conversation!

Change is something that every pastor must manage, lead, and negotiate in local church ministry. Dave shares some important principles to keep in mind as we lead the change process.

Remarkably, Karl Vaters, from actually gets thrown under the bus several times. Our apologies to Karl! Kind of.

Bonus Episode 01 - A Health Journey Update from Three Pastors

Feb 23, 2019 1924


Jeff talks with three pastors who started their health journeys just a month ago, and they share their experience and progress. It's just not as hard or complicated as you might think it is. This is a very different episode, interesting, and encouraging!

Episode 314 - How A Young Pastor Views Ministry with Derek Ambroson

Feb 21, 2019 3359


Jeff has a conversation with Derek Ambroson, a bi-vocational youth pastor from Minneapolis MN. He pastors at Roseville Baptist Church with his lead pastor. Jeff and Derek talk about how a young millennial views ministry, discipleship, pastoral relationships, and balancing family and ministry. Derek is A+!

Episode 313 - How To Lead and Love Negative People with Dan Reiland

Feb 13, 2019 3070


Dan Reiland, Exec. Pastor of joins the guys after a two year hiatus to talk about leadership and negative people. He shares 5 helpful approaches when working with a negative person. Don't miss the outtakes at the end! What a blast!

Episode 312 - How God Saved Me And Is Using Me with Joe Petrone

Feb 8, 2019 3326


Joe Petrone from, shares his journey of coming to faith, then experiencing huge disappointment in two of his first three churches he attended. Successful, driven, and prosperous, Joe was broken on the inside. A moving story!

Episode 311 - Ministry Coaching Rocket Fuel with John Finkelde

Jan 30, 2019 3338


John Finkelde from joins Jeff to talk to pastors about what he sees as the challenges that face them today. From changing culture to changing tech to burnout, he offers real life solutions. This is an incredible episode for pastors and church leaders!

Episode 310 - Pastor, What's Your Plan For Personal Growth In 2019?

Jan 23, 2019 2429


Jeff has a solo episode about what it takes to NOT let the ministry of your church overtake your personal leadership capacity. Don't let people say about you, "the church just grew beyond the capacity of the pastor to lead it, too bad..." The question of the episode is this: "Pastor, do you have a personal growth plan for 2019? Hmmmm?"

Episode 309 - How Vision Fuels Your Church with Dave Jacobs

Jan 18, 2019 2620


Dave Jacobs from talks with Jeff and Jonny about the importance of maintaining Vision in your 200church! Dave actually joined the guys LIVE in Des Moines in the studio and it's a great, thought provoking conversation! You can contact Dave for personal pastoral coaching at!

Episode 308 - Focus On Your Strengths In Small Church Ministry with Tyler Ramsbey

Jan 9, 2019 2937


Tyler Ramsbey is a small church pastor who is confident and humble. He focuses on his strengths and is not fazed by his weaknesses. Jeff and Jonny pick his brain about small town ministry, church planting, and balancing family and ministry.

Episode 308 - Focus On Your Strengths In Small Church Ministry with Tyler Ramsbey

Jan 9, 2019 2937


Tyler Ramsbey is a small church pastor who is confident and humble. He focuses on his strengths and is not fazed by his weaknesses. Jeff and Jonny pick his brain about small town ministry, church planting, and balancing family and ministry. Tyler is the poster-pastor for 200church ministry, and this is a fun and encouraging episode.

Episode 307 - The Pastor's Personal Life with Rob Tarnoviski

Jan 4, 2019 3233


A great conversation with a veteran pastor about what it takes for a pastor to stay healthy in body, mind, and spirit! Rob and Jeff have been best friends for 35 years, and have tracked together as friends over a lifetime of ministry. Very encouraging! You can find Rob's ministry at

Episode 306 - How Not To Be A Church Of Us vs. Them with David Fitch

Dec 26, 2018 3779


David Fitch from Northern Seminary in Chicago talks with the guys about leading as a pastor in a culture that wants to pit our people against each other socially and politically, and how to reduce conflict without avoiding it. This is a deep one! Dave is previewing the major topics of a book he has been working on for a long time, and which will be released soon. 

Episode 305 - How Jeff Lost Almost 50 Pounds and YOU Can Too with David Bush

Dec 19, 2018 3355


David Bush joins Jeff to talk about the Habits of Health Jeff has been adopting in his life, to help him lose almost 50 pounds, eat healthy, exercise, pursue his goals, and boost his energy for a wonderful, full life of family and ministry! Inspiring and challenging! And YOU can do it too! Jeff says that if he did it, so can you - and so you can! Listen in...

Episode 304 - A Truckload of Pastoral Encouragement and Hope with John Lynch

Dec 14, 2018 4031


John Lynch is the co-author of The Cure - What if God isn't who you think he is, and neither are you. He is also one of the founders of, and a sought after speaker and pastoral encourager. He is here for you today on Episode 304!

Episode 303 - A Ministry Leadership MasterClass with Rob Tarnoviski

Dec 6, 2018 3736


Pastor Rob Tarnoviski from joined Jeff to talk all about leadership, ministry growth, and how to lead a thriving, outward-focused church. This episode is so practical, helpful, and inspirational! So glad to share it with you! Enjoy!

Rob has been almost 23 years in the same church in Northeast Philadelphia. When he arrived, there were only 80 people...

Episode 302 - Spiritually Flourishing - Nurturing the Pastor's Heart with Ken Shigematsu

Nov 28, 2018 3706


Ken Shigematsu, Senior Pastor of Tenth Church in Vancouver, BC Canada joins the guys to share how pastors can restore their souls for Jesus and for ministry. Ken is a contemplative pastor of a large multisite church - a wonderful episode! His newest book is called Survival Guide For The Soul...

Episode 301 - Church Planting in the Suburbs and How Your Zip Code Informs Your Ministry with Ashley Hales

Nov 21, 2018 3632


Ashley Hales and her husband are planting a church in a Southern California suburb. Ashley talks to us about thoughts from her book, Finding Holy In The Suburbs, and how your place determines your ministry approach.  Ashley was a ton of fun to talk with and brings some great thoughts, ideas, and inspiration for all pastors! A fun return for Jeff and Jonny after two weeks off!

Episode 300 - What Millennials Look For In A Church with Tiffany Deluccia

Oct 31, 2018 4252


Tiffany Deluccia, the Director of Marketing & Communications at The Unstuck Group, joins the guys on Episode 300 to talk about what millennial parents look for in a church. Then we add some throwback fun on the end of the episode! In fact, the last nine minutes of the episode is the entire first episode ever of the podcast, from January 2013! Enjoy!

Episode 299 - Stress Free Bi-Vocational Ministry with Danny Garrido

Oct 24, 2018 3194


Danny Garrido is a bi-vocational pastor of a Colorado Springs bilingual church! Danny has been at it for almost 18 years and his church is ministering to the community in a significant way. He shares his strategy for stress-free ministry!

Episode 298 - Creating Margin & Reclaiming Life with Dave Jacobs

Oct 17, 2018 3196


Jeff and Jonny are joined LIVE in the studio by Dave Jacobs, from and talk with him about reclaiming our lives by creating margin in our ministry worlds. So encouraging and FUN!

Episode 297 - Every Sunday You Need A Sermon with Jeff and Jonny

Oct 10, 2018 2338


Jonny and Jeff talk about the weekly mandate of sermon prep, how they approach it, and how they think about preaching in today's culture. This is a start of the conversation, which will likely develop into additional episodes. This is a very encouraging episode for pastors of small churches! Your messages matter!

Episode 296 - Big Change Small Groups & Small Churches with Heather Zempel

Oct 3, 2018 3810


Heather Zempel from National Community Church in Wash. D.C. joins Jeff to talk about small group ministry, her leadership, and her experiences moving from the marketplace into ministry. Heather's new book, published by Orange, is titled Big Change Small Group and is written for the "in the trenches" small group leader. Yet another encouraging episode!

Episode 295 - What is the 95Network? With Dale Sellers

Sep 28, 2018 4660


Dale Sellers is the Executive Director of and a lover of small churches and small church pastors! This is a full, fun, and encouraging episode, and Jeff stayed up so late to edit it he fell asleep two times in the middle of it! ENJOY!

Episode 294 - Mission Passion In The First Person with Norma V

Sep 19, 2018 3201


Veteran missionary Norma V speaks with Jeff about her ascent into foreign missions and her heart for soul formation and discipleship in her mission context. She speaks to small church pastors about her passion for the Gospel and church planting, and gives them a challenge at the end...

Episode 293 - Encouraging and Valuing Small Churches (with Chris Vitarelli)

Sep 12, 2018 3380


Jeff is joined by Chris Vitarelli--small church pastor, conference leader, and all around good guy--to talk about the Small Church Big Deal Conference in Fenton, Michigan. Jeff and Chris also talk about his ministry journey, what it's like to pastor two churches in two different cities and his love of small churches and his heart for pastors.

Episode 292 - Who Is Your Model For Ministry Leadership? With Ray Hollenbach

Sep 5, 2018 3082


Ray Hollenbach from joins the guys to talk about ministry leadership - the good, bad, and ugly. Ray talks about where we get our leadership model from for our pastoral ministry. This episode will make you think, and take stock!

Episode 291 - Unsticking Your Stuck Church with Tony Morgan from The Unstuck Group

Aug 29, 2018 2603


Tony Morgan, from, joins Jeff and Jonny LIVE and in the flesh as the three of them converse on what it means to get your church back on mission, back on the road to reaching people in your community who have no hope! Tony's organization helps get stuck churches - Unstuck! This is a very helpful and encouraging episode! Enjoy it!

Episode 290 - Sex Trafficking & Homes of Hope with Al Henson

Aug 22, 2018 3484


Al Henson, from, joins the guys to talk about his ministry's work in helping to rescue children, infants, and young people from the dangers of sex trafficking in Southeast Asia. An amazing episode!

Episode 289 - Willowcreek, Hybels, Justice, and Not Piling On

Aug 15, 2018 2525


This is Jonny and Jeff's take on how us pastors might approach the awful events that have unfolded at Willowcreek. How do we process and think about all this? Jeff and Jonny debrief each other and process Hybels and Willow together. They try to do it with compassion and humility, but also with honesty and openness.

Episode 288: How and Why To Have Crucial Conversations (with Pam Dykstra)

Aug 7, 2018 3283


Jonny is joined by his friend Pam Dykstra (who happens to be a Master Trainer with VitalSmarts) and they talk about what Crucial Conversations are, why we avoid them, and how to have them well in order to get unstuck. Pastor, you NEED to listen to this conversation because there are places where you are stuck and conversations that you have been putting off (or that you have been going about the wrong way!) This episode is JAM PACKED with content and you will not be sorry you tuned in!

Episode 287 - Beginning Ministry At Half Time with Jim Drake

Aug 1, 2018 2788


Jim Drake IS... a small church pastor! He pastors in Bluefield VA and did not start until after age 40, so beginning ministry in the second half. This is his story... from the Air Force to the pulpit. It's never too late.

Special Episode--An Invitation to be Encouraged in Your Ministry

Jul 24, 2018 564


Jonny is joined by his wife, Kayla, to talk about a special event that YOU are invited to!

Episode 286 - Embracing Love in the Chaotic World of Addiction with Vinny Provenzano

Jul 19, 2018 3248


Pastor Vinny shares from his heart what it's like to have a family member involved in addiction. Too many families know the pain and suffering associated with mental health and addiction issues and a pastor's family is no exception.

Episode 285 - Staffing Principles and Strategies That Work Even In Small Churches with Sarah Bouma from the Unstuck Group

Jul 11, 2018 2844


Sarah Bouma works with Tony Morgan and his Unstuck Group, ( coaching churches in the areas of staffing and structure. She was recently at Jeff's church and was so gracious to stick around and record a podcast episode with Jeff! Jonny and Jeff are together for the IN and OUT of this episode, and promo a great small church conference opportunity coming up this October!

Episode 284 - Q&A With Jeff & Dave Jacobs Part 2

Jul 4, 2018 2610


Episode 284 is the 2nd half of a conversation Jeff had with Dave Jacobs, from, where they answer questions from Dave's Small Church Pastor Facebook group. Jonny joins Jeff on the front and back of this episode!

Episode 283 - Your Questions Answered Part 1 with Dave Jacobs & Jeff Keady

Jun 27, 2018 2429


Dave Jacobs from and the Small Church Pastor Facebook Group gathered group members' questions and then he and Jeff each take a whack at them, giving them their best shot! If you need coaching as a pastor, that's what Dave does for a living! You can easily find him at or email him at

Episode 282 - From Water to Wine to Wisdom with Derek Vreeland

Jun 20, 2018 3418


Derek Vreeland is the Discipleship Pastor at Word of Life Church in St. Joseph MO. His pastor, Brian Zahnd, was our guest on episode 202, and now Derek joins us a mere 80 weeks later! Practical wisdom and real life experience flow out of Derek! You'll enjoy this episode!

Episode 281 - This Small Church Pastor Is Pastor To A President - with Brandon Patterson

Jun 13, 2018 2826


Brandon Patterson is a new, young pastor. He heard Jeff & Jonny on Carey Nieuwhof's Leadership Podcast, episode 99 - and sent us a message. As he often does, Jeff replied and connected with him, and today he is on the episode with encouragement to spare! Brandon's heart for God and people is very rare in ministry, especially at age 24. What is even more rare is that he is pastor to a President. But that's just a part of this guy's wonderful story...

Episode 280 - What's on My Mind with Jonny Craig

Jun 5, 2018 2433


PIcking up where Jeff left off last week, Jonny shares some things that are on his mind like family, special needs ministry, church decline, and worship services. He also shares a book he recently read and encourages pastors to keep churches connected over the summer.

Episode 279 - What's On My Mind with Jeff Keady

May 30, 2018 3032


Jeff records a solo episode and creates the first "What's On My Mind" episode. He and Jonny have been wanting to create some solo episodes just to speak personally to small church pastors, and this is the first one. Jeff, of course, challenges Jonny to counter with his own "What's On My Mind" episode to follow... soon. :-) Jeff encourages the listeners to check out the "Podcast Series" page at and peruse some great episodes in the 200churches Archive Vault!

Episode 278 - Developing Fully Formed Followers of Jesus with Dan Den Boer

May 22, 2018 2922


Jonny is joined by Northwestern College professor (and friend) Dan Den Boer to talk about formation and the role of the church in developing Christ followers. The conversation swerves into topics like literalism, historical criticism, and Bibliolatry and is sure to get your mental gears turning.

Episode 277 - From Pastoring Small Churches to Chaplaincy (With John Ottley)

May 15, 2018 2797


Jonny is joined by John Ottley--small church pastor turned hospital chaplain to talk about what he has learned over his 30-year ministry career and what he is learning as he begins a new career as a chaplain.

Episode 276 - A CityLight Church Planting Adventure with Jason Wilson & Eric Carpenter

May 9, 2018 2999


On today’s episode we are joined by Jason Wilson, from Citylight Church in Council Bluffs IA and Eric Carpenter from Christ Community Church in Omaha Nebraska as they share their plans to co plant another CityLight Church in Kansas City Missouri. This is a good one, let’s get started.

Episode 275 - Candid Thoughts From A College President with Joel Wiggins

May 2, 2018 3614


Dr. Joel Wiggins, President of Crown College in the Twin Cities of Minnesota talks with transparency and candor about his life as a small church pastor, and the challenge of educating pastors for tomorrow. You can find his college at!

Episode 274 - From Legalism and Depression to Grace and Church Planting - Derek Levendusky's Story

Apr 25, 2018 3204


When Derek Levendusky started his week on Sunday morning, he had no idea he would be our guest from episode 274. Toiling away in a new church in Western New York, Derek is everything that is good about small church ministry. Jeff walked into his early service on Sunday 30 minutes late. Right after the service he talked with Derek at the front of the church. In ten minutes he sealed the deal for him to record two days later. This is his story. And, it's sooooo good! Check out our sponsor, TrainedUp.Church and use "200CHURCHES" as a promo code for 10% off for life. Go to

Episode 273 - How To Connect New People To The Life Of Your Church with Greg Curtis

Apr 18, 2018 3581


Greg Curtis, Director of Assimilation at Eastside Christian Church in Anaheim CA joins Jeff to talk about how small churches should assimilate first time attenders. This is SO, SO practical. You will love it! Find Greg at

Episode 272 - The Healthy, Effective, Life-Changing, Kingdom Advancing Small Church with Karl Vaters

Apr 11, 2018 2311


Karl "the Shark" Vaters from joins us again after a 79-week span since his last appearance. We can't believe it's been that long - but he's back to talk about his new book - Small Church Essentials. Great encouragement for you!

Episode 271 - Talking Kingdom Ministry with Reggie McNeal - Part 2

Apr 4, 2018 2972


Jeff and Jonny both talk with Reggie McNeal, author of The Present Future and Kingdom Collaborators - Eight Signature Practices of Leaders Who Turn the World Upside Down. This is part 2 from Episode 268. You will be challenged to think about your church ministry in a fresh and innovative way. This was a fun one!!

Episode 270 - Small Town Summits - Part of the Larger Small Church Movement

Mar 28, 2018 3323


Stephen Witmer and David Pinckney are the founders of! They love to talk about pastoral ministry in small places, and rural places. They are bringing pastors together for encouragement and training - and invite you to join them!

Episode 269 - How To Start A Safety And Security Ministry In Your Small Church with Bob Johnson

Mar 21, 2018 2489


Church security expert, Bob Johnson, from Christ's Church of the Valley in Peoria, AZ joins the guys to talk about how a small church can have an effective security ministry. Great information here! This will give you a clear starting point to develop a serious ministry to care for the safety of your church family. This is a serious episode, until the outtakes... :-)

Episode 268 - Talking Kingdom Ministry with Reggie McNeal

Mar 14, 2018 2454


This is a truncated conversation with Reggie McNeal, the entire conversation is a couple episodes in the future, but in this one we intro Reggie's book - Kingdom Collaborators, and then talk about Kingdom Ministry. It will be thought provoking for you! And, check out Reggie's newest book on Kingdom Collaborators!

Episode 267: Caring for Special Needs People in Your Small Church (with the Special Friends Team from Willow Creek)

Mar 7, 2018 3211


Jonny is joined by Bep Reeves to talk with Pat Cimo, and Jenni & Paul Von Tobel from Willow Creek Church about their Special Friends ministry. Special Friends ministers to folks with special needs and disabilities within the Willow Creek body and Pat, Jenni, and Paul bring helpful and practical insight for how you can minister to individuals with special needs in your own context.

Episode 266: Staffing Solutions for Your Small Church (with Dave Miller)

Feb 27, 2018 2647


Dave Miller from Slingshot Group and Leadership Pathway joins us to talk about developing the next generation of church leadership and staffing issues facing all sized churches.

Episode 265 - A Vicar & Archdeacon Speaks on Healthy Cultures, Teams, & Systems with Helen Phillips

Feb 21, 2018 3025


The Venerable Helen Phillips, Archdeacon of Frankston and Parish Vicar in the Anglican Church, from Victoria, Australia joins us for a lively and interesting conversation about small church ministry! You will love it!

Episode 264 - Theology, Small Churches, and the Holy Spirit with Cherith Nordling

Feb 14, 2018 3328


Dr. Cherith Nordling, Assoc. Professor of Theology at Northern Seminary in Chicago is on again with Jeff and Jonny, to blow your mind and regale you with spiritual stories. Get ready, it's gonna be good!

Episode 263 - My First 3 Years In Ministry with Marc Shefelton

Feb 9, 2018 2747


Jeff talks with Marc Shefelton, pastor of Buffalo Prairie Church in Illinois, about his first three years in ministry. This is a classic small church pastor episode! Jonny joins Jeff for commentary and analysis with his wit and wisdom!

Episode 262 - What a Pastor's Spouse Wants You to Know.mp3

Jan 31, 2018 2775


Jonny's wife Kayla Craig, joins us to talk about life as a young ministry spouse - replete with four children and a part time job! Demands on families of pastors can be steep - and Kayla talks about the good, the bad, and the not-so-ugly.

Episode 261 - Size Doesn't Matter - Healthy Pastors Produce Healthy Churches with John Hardy

Jan 24, 2018 2857


Jonny and Jeff talk with John Hardy, from Perth Australia. John is a business and ministry coach, as well as a pastor's husband! John talks with us about his experience from almost 40 years of ministry - so encouraging! You can find John Hardy at

Episode 260 - Five Focus Areas For Every Pastor - A Conversation With John Finkelde

Jan 17, 2018 2984


John Finkelde from joins us for our 5-Year Anniversary episode! #260! John coaches and consults with pastors and churches and is an all around great person! We love him!!

Episode 259: The Intersection of Grief and Vocation--A Conversation with Bep Reeves

Jan 10, 2018 3479


Pastor Bep is a Children's Pastor in Central Iowa. Her story is unlike any other we've shared on this podcast. It will inspire you. A lot. Thanks Bep for being so real, so you!

Episode 258 - Jeff & Jonny's 5 Hot Ministry Realities for 2018

Jan 3, 2018 2580


Jeff and Jonny present a #classic episode talking about 2018 ministry realities that they and you as pastors will deal with in the New Year. From political exhaustion to sporadic church attendance to potential blessings and disasters... they cover it all...

Episode 257 - How Small Churches Can Help the Least of These Discover Hope! With Robbie Robinson

Dec 27, 2017 3137


Jeff is joined by Robbie Robinson, the Exec. Director of, a faith based recovery ministry helping addicts and those returning to society from incarceration make healthy and spiritual transitions with the help of the church and God!

Episode 256 - Vulnerability and Authenticity in Ministry - A Conversation with Mark Young

Dec 20, 2017 2216


Having served 43 years in ministry, Pastor Mark Young finds himself sitting squarely in the middle of the 200churches Studio with Jeff and Jonny talking about some of the most vulnerable moments of his life and ministry... A very encouraging episode!

Episode 255 - Why You Must Focus On MarriedPeople in Your Small Church with Ted Lowe from the reThink Group

Dec 13, 2017 3424


Ted Lowe, the Director of, joins Jeff to talk about marriage ministry in your small church. Married people are waiting to long to ask for help with their marriage! Your church can prevent disaster and divorce! Here's how...

Episode 254 - Naked Man Running - 100 Ideas That Work in a Small Church with Dave Jacobs

Dec 6, 2017 3001


This is a conversation with Dave Jacobs from Dave just released his book of 100 ideas that work in small churches - and we cover about 6 or 7 of them in this episode. Very encouraging and practical! You'll love it.

Episode 253 - An Encouraging Conversation with the Pastor Around the Corner

Nov 29, 2017 3148


Jonny and Jeff talk with Chad Jennings, a 200church pastor around the corner from Jeff. Chad has been in ministry 15 years and has just begun at his current church. Their conversation is very encouraging and insightful!

Episode 252 - The Easiest Way to Get the Best Training for Your Church -- A Conversation with Scott Magdalein

Nov 14, 2017 2647


On this episode, Jeff and Jonny talk with Scott Magdalein from about the videos and resources that he and his team have created to bring great training to every church. Scott has been leading for two years and brings a lot of energy and passion to this episode.

Episode 251 - How Your Context Defines Your Ministry with Pedro Alexandrino.mp3

Nov 8, 2017 3515


This is Pedro Alexandrino's second time on the podcast, and he updates us on his small church plant in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. If this episode doesn't get you thinking about your own ministry in new ways, you'd better quit the pastorate! :-) So good!

Episode 250 - Free Church Recources We Didn't Know Existed from Life.Church

Nov 1, 2017 2637


Kyle Kutter, the Team Leader of the Open Network of Life.Church joins us to talk about the free resources inundating the website for pastors all around the world. Life.Church is a gracious ministry practicing irrational Kingdom generosity!

Episode 249 - Yes, I am an Introvert and a Pastor

Oct 25, 2017 3211


Jonny and Jeff have a conversation with Gary Hanson about what it's like to be in ministry and be an introvert. As Gary says, most people think of pastors as people persons, extroverts who love to be in the limelight. That is NOT true - because so many pastors are planners, administrators, thinkers, creative, crave alone time, and are anything but extroverted. The truth is, the extroverts desperately need the introverts in order to finally get anything accomplished, and the introverts likely only mildly need the extroverts, just to remind them that there are others in the building. :-) Gary and Jonny get pretty honest about their friendship and working relationship. Then we all try to draw some encouragement from the well for the pastors who might be introverts, but who wish they weren't - they wish they were more outgoing... and why that is the wrong direction to think!

Episode 248 - Fired up for Ministry in Flint, Michigan - A Conversation with Ernesto Alaniz

Oct 18, 2017 3361


Ernesto Alaniz is a small church pastor, a 200churches listener, and a passionate church planter in Flint MI. Ernesto shares his story of adventure, struggle, passion, hope, and accomplishment with the guys on this episode.

Episode 247 - The Foundations of a Healthy Church

Oct 11, 2017 2413


In this episode, Jonny and Jeff debunk some myths around what makes a church "healthy" and outline the foundation and practices of a real healthy church, ministries, and pastor.

Episode 246 - Using Coaching Skills In Pastoral Ministry with Dave Jacobs

Oct 4, 2017 3126


Dave "the Animal" Jacobs, from joins us to talk about how utilizing coaching skills makes for a much more effective leadership model in pastoral ministry! This is a live episode with Jeff & Jonny together with Dave!

Episode 245: A Healthy Church is a Hospitable Church with Sam Prellwitz

Sep 27, 2017 2419


This week Jonny is joined by his friend from seminary: Sam Prellwitz. Sam joined Jeff and Jonny way back on episode 105 and he was gracious enough to return to share some best practices from his church in the area of hospitality!

Episode 244 - Leading Yourself Before You Lead Your Church with Scott Dalen

Sep 20, 2017 2392


Jonny talks with Scott Dalen, a Lutheran pastor from the Midwest about self leadership. This is a conversation between two Millennial pastors about what it takes to lead yourself first. Scott is a small church pastor and a regular listener!

Episode 243 - Dealing with Fear and Loss: The Internal Struggle of a Pastor with Ray Hollenbach

Sep 13, 2017 2439


Episode 243 is our conversation with the founder of, Ray Hollenbach. Ray is a pastor's coach, a college theology prof, a church planter, and a church consultant. Ray talks with Jeff and Jonny about the pain of and struggle of the fear and loss, that results from change. This is an episode that piggybacks off the last one, episode 242, with Tod Bolsinger. If you are struggling as a pastor with keeping up with the rapid change in our society, this episode will give you hope! Paul the Apostle dealt with what we are going through, 10X! Ray refers to him and makes a great point in the process. This episode will encourage and inspire you as a small church pastor, a 200church pastor! Enjoy!

Episode 242 - Leading in Uncharted Territory with Tod Bolsinger

Sep 6, 2017 3136


Jonny talks with Tod Bolsinger about his recent book "Canoeing the Mountains" and leading the church in the post-Christian world we find ourselves in. Jonny is joined in this interview by Suzanne Vogel and Jeff even pops in for the beginning and ending!

Episode 241 - Contentment not Complacency with David Housholder

Aug 29, 2017 2011


Jonny sits down with David Housholder to talk about how he cultivates contentment without getting complacent in his small church! Jonny and Jeff also give some updates on their new church situations and chat about staying fresh in ministry.

Episode 240 - A Phenomenal Hour of Pastoral Coaching with David MacDonald

Aug 23, 2017 3624


This episode is like sitting in on a free coaching call with a seasoned and live-wire pastor of a 200church! David MacDonald shares life, love, and leadership for small church pastors! You'll love this encouraging episode! David is the senior pastor of Faith Community Church in Red Oak, Iowa!

Episode 239 - What Authors and Small Church Pastors Dream Of - A Story Of Radical Life Change with Steve Mason

Aug 16, 2017 3631


Steve Mason was given the book, The Cure, reading it in one night his life immediately began to change, as did his wife's. They would never be the same. In a few years he would float in the Caribbean with the author, as they reveled in the grace of God!

Episode 238 - When Life, Ministry, and Business Morph with Tim & Ginger Hohm

Aug 9, 2017 3062


Tim and Ginger Hohm from, and small church ministry, join us to talk about what happens when life, ministry, and business change and morph - and God is in it - but you're still scared! Here's their story! Enjoy!

Episode 237 - When Pastors Move - Jeff & Jonny's Story

Aug 2, 2017 2428


Big transitions in both Jeff and Jonny's ministries this year! At this release, Jonny has left Orange City, and Jeff is on his way in about one month. They tell their stories of grit and grimace, faith and failure! Or... just their stories... of how God is moving them on to other ministries, while continuing to unite their hearts together to advocate for the cause of small church pastors everywhere!

Episode 236 - Does Anyone Still Deal With Gossip In The Church? With Dave Jacobs

Jul 26, 2017 3106


Dave Jacobs, from, joins Jeff to talk about specifics in dealing with destructive and divisive gossip in your small church. This is very helpful and practical!

Episode 235 - It's the Economy, Pastor! With Walter Brueggemann

Jul 19, 2017 3104


Jeff and Jonny speak with Walter Brueggemann, who is surely one of the most influential Bible interpreters of our time. He has authored over one hundred books and numerous scholarly articles. He continues to be a highly sought-after speaker. We called Dr. B at home and had about a 45 minute conversation about how the church might be a presence in the world, bringing hope to a slightly “lost cause” today. Dr. Brueggemann’s website is

Episode 234 - Eucharistic Celebration as the Cornerstone of Worship with Stanley Hauerwas

Jul 12, 2017 2795


Named "America’s Best Theologian" by Time magazine in 2001, Dr. Stanley Hauerwas joins Jeff and Jonny to talk about the importance of the church, and the role of the small church pastor, especially in the Eucharistic Celebration! A thriller! A must hear!

Episode 233 - Small Church Ministry in the Yukon Territory with Jeremy Norton

Jul 5, 2017 2966


Jeremy Norton is the real deal! Straight from a small church, 200 miles north of Juneau AK, in the Yukon Territory of Canada, Jeremy talks about leading change, loving his leaders, and ordering his week! This is an awesome episode! Check out Jeremy's church here!

Episode 232 - Partnering With Other Churches To Serve Your Community with Zach Bauer

Jun 28, 2017 2883


Zach Bauer, pastor of Red Door Church in Sioux Falls SD joins us to talk about how his small church is making a big impact on people in his community. This is an inspirational, practical, and encouraging episode! Thanks Zach! Say hi to Jack for us... Catch Zach at and get some great resources and ideas for community outreach and multi-church partnerships at

Episode 231 - A Christological Tornado - with Cherith Nordling

Jun 21, 2017 3841


The guys were blown out of the water as the Christological tornado that is Cherith Nordling ripped through the podcast studio, via Skype! Cherith expounds on the wonders of Jesus, the hypostatic union, the power of the Spirit, Philippians 2, and so much more – so, so good! Check out Dr. Nordling in the faculty section of! This is also a great connecting episode with!

Episode 230 - The Global Impact of Children’s Ministry with AWANA CEO Valerie Bell

Jun 14, 2017 3183


The CEO of AWANA Clubs International, Valerie Bell, joins the guys LIVE in the studio! This episode is off the charts heartfelt surrounding both Children's Ministry, and small churches and their pastors. Valerie shares her heart for kids and families, small churches, the third world outreach AWANA is involved in, and much more! You will be both encouraged and challenged! Enjoy!

Episode 229 - Meetings - Bane or Blessing with Dave Jacobs

Jun 7, 2017 2684


From, Dave "the Animal" Jacobs joins us to give some great advice on how to have great meetings, or as he put it, "meetings that don't suck!" This episode is so practical for pastors of all size churches! As usual, you will enjoy the practical and humorous nature of our podcast. We try to deal with important and serious content, while making room to breathe and laugh!

Episode 228 - Women As the Image-Bearers of God with Carolyn Custis James

May 31, 2017 3353


Carolyn Custis James joins the guys to talk about her book, Half The Church. Carolyn is soft spoken with very loud content! What a fun lady with a sharp intellect and engaging sense of humor, talking about the mission of women in the Kingdom of God!

Episode 227 - A Fresh Approach To Bible Reading with Glenn Paauw

May 24, 2017 3381


Glenn Paauw from joins Jeff and Rob at a Missio Alliance Gathering recently to talk about a fresh approach to reading the Bible in community in your church - this is an eye-opening episode for all pastors! You can sign up to receive information for the Bible Reading project at

Episode 226 - Creating Mental Illness Literate Congregations with Kay Warren

May 17, 2017 3002


In 1980 Rick and Kay Warren started in their living room what is today Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, CA. 37 years later Kay can look back and see the best of times and the worst of times. She and her husband Rick have been great examples to other pastors and wives of how to let God use both your strengths as well as your greatest pain in life to prepare you to love and serve others. Kay Warren joins Jeff and Jonny to talk about mental illness and the church. How do we equip our congregations to become mental illness literate? Kay describes what her dream church would look like if she could snap her fingers and make it happen! There is a little humor and a lot of seriousness around this very sobering topic. Let’s admit it, our churches should be the friendliest, most helpful, most encouraging spaces for people with mental illness. In this episode Kay will give you a plan to help your church arrive at just such a place!

Episode 225 - Reimagining Small Church Ministry with Zach Bauer

May 10, 2017 3058


Zach "the Hammer" Bauer joins the guys to talk about how he recast a refined vision to his young church and set it on a more intentional and focused course. With his leadership team, he reimagined his Children's Ministry and found a new group of volunteers! A great, practical, and encouraging episode!

Episode 224 - Race, Reconciliation, & the Church with Jemar Tisby

May 3, 2017 3471


Things get REAL when Jeff & Jonny talk with Jemar Tisby about race, reconciliation, white privilege, and the church. They talk about sensitive things in our society, but they manage a very thoughtful and gracious conversation between friends, which always helps understanding!

Episode 223 - There Is Freedom In Transparency As A Pastor with Mandy Smith

Apr 26, 2017 3764


Mandy Smith is the Senior Pastor of University Christian Church in Cincinnati OH. This is her 2nd time with us to finish talking about The Transparent Pastor - a fantastically wonderful book she wrote. A very personal and theological conversation!

Episode 222 - Matt Frey Gives the Straight Dope on Discipleship for Small Church Pastors!

Apr 19, 2017 3176


Matt Frey is a Discipleship Pastor from Beaver Falls, PA and an old pal of Jeff's. Never hesitant to bring the heat, Matt provides the straight dope on the issue of discipleship - in a way very accessible for pastors of all size churches!

Episode 221 - Inner City Ministry At Bridge of Hope

Apr 12, 2017 1808


Jeff talks with Robin Boda from Bridge of Hope Ministries in St. Louis MO. They talk about the needs of people in tough situations, and - what we offer them, and what they teach us! A very encouraging episode! You can see the fantastic ways that Bridge of Hope is meeting needs in their community right here -

Episode 220 - Preaching, Church Planting, & Bi-Vocational Ministry

Apr 5, 2017 2849


John Chandler, from the SermonSmith Podcast, joins us to talk about sermon craft, bi-vocational ministry, missional ministry, and family/ministry balance, among much else! You will be encouraged to keep pressing forward in your own 200church!

Episode 219 - Sexual Abuse in the Church - A Tragedy

Mar 29, 2017 3030


Unlike any other episode we've done, this is a very serious discussion with two ladies who are sexual abuse survivors - about sexual abuse in the church, and child abuse as well. Jeff and Jonny talk w/ Nicole Bromley and Mary O'Brien from WWW.IAMONEVOICE.COM. Nicole speaks around the country and world for victims of sexual abuse. She knows the horrors of it first hand. This is a must listen to episode for every small church pastor!

Episode 218 - When Hillsong Church Plants In Your Town - with John Finkelde

Mar 22, 2017 2967


John Finkelde, from Perth, Australia gives wisdom about how to handle another larger church planting in your town or neighborhood. What do you do? How do you deal with it? Jeff and Jonny have a great conversation with the Aussie Pastor's Coach! #Hillsong John's blog post about Hillsong Church planting in Perth went viral - he talks about it, and shares the wisdom too!

Episode 217 - Hope in the Age of Fear

Mar 15, 2017 2601


Sweet Baby Ray Hollenbach, from joins Jeff and Jonny to talk about a simple, yet so profound commodity that all of us pastors deal in - HOPE. We talk about hope in the age of fear! A contemplative episode... Ray is a pastor's coach, counselor, and consultant - and can help you at!

Episode 216 - The Body of Christ Sports Many Outfits - A Never Before Episode!

Mar 8, 2017 4860


Dan Tarrant is our special featured guest on this, the longest episode in the history of the Podcast. This is a phenomenal episode. We've never produced an episode like this one! Ever. You'll love it. The Body of Christ is beautiful! We can learn from everyone in the Body of Christ!

Episode 215 - A Church Planter, Pastor, & Listener From Rio de Janeiro

Mar 1, 2017 2938


Jeff and Jonny are joined by an energetic small church pastor/church planter from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil - Pedro Alexandrino. Pedro shares the challenge and beauty of a small church filled with real people, real struggles, and changed lives! You'll love Pastor Pedro!

Episode 214 - Wisdom From A Desert Pastor

Feb 22, 2017 2888


David Housholder is a bivocational pastor from the San Diego area and a long time listener to the podcast! Jeff and Jonny talk with him about a vast array of small church ministry issues. You will definitely connect with this conversation! David has been in large and small churches, and is currently in a smaller church, but absolutely loves it!

Episode 213 - When Listener Becomes Guest - Pastor Ronnie Brown

Feb 15, 2017 2213


Pastor & Podcaster Ronnie Brown joins us - himself a listener to our podcast! Ronnie shares the wows and woes of his church and bivocational ministry. Ronnie is the real deal small church pastor! You will finish this episode much more encouraged than when you started!

Episode 212 - What’s the First Impression Your Church Makes?

Feb 8, 2017 2098


On Episode 212 Greg Atkinson talks with the guys about your church’s first impressions and how they impact visitor retention, and ultimately the outreach of your church. This absolutely is a practical and helpful episode. You’ll love it!

Episode 211 - Young Pastor + 2 Churches = Big Impact!

Feb 1, 2017 2995


Shea Zellweger pastors two churches in Connecticut with a total of about 100 in attendance. Shea has BIG VISION for what his churches can accomplish in their neighborhoods! Exciting, practical, and encouraging! You'll love Shea! He's a great young leader and so representative of Millennial pastors.

Episode 210 - Pastor, A Rule Of Life That Will Allow You To Get Your Life Back!

Jan 25, 2017 2912


Jeff and Jonny talk with Ken Shigematsu, from Tenth Church in Vancouver BC. Ken talks about the spiritual disciplines he uses to center his life and he shares them with you! Yes, Ken talks contemplative, monks, and meditation! You'll learn a ton from Ken!

Episode 209 - This Great Couple Loves & Coaches Pastors For Maximum Health & Ministry!

Jan 18, 2017 2807


When Barb emailed in constructive criticism to Jeff and Jonny, they invited her and her husband to come on the podcast and provide the rest of the story! This is an extremely fun episode about the benefits of pastoral coaching. Isolation and loneliness do not have to be a part of your ministry and personal life. Check this episode out, and don't miss the bonus outtake at the end!

Episode 208 - Simplifying Systems in Your Small Church with Rich Birch

Jan 11, 2017 3071


Rich Birch, from the UnSeminary Podcast and joins the guys to talk about his work at UnSeminary, AND how to think about needed systems, simply, in your small church. Lots of fun and very helpful! Rich is the author of Unreasonable Churches: 10 Churches Who Zagged When Others Zigged and Saw More Impact Because of It. These are not the famous churches we all hear about. They’re churches in Everytown, USA and you can find the book at

Episode 207 – The Pastor Who Would Be A Healthy Leader – You Know You Want To Listen!

Jan 4, 2017 3425


Jonny and Jeff talk with Justin Irving and Andrew Gross about their book on the intersection of leadership resiliency and differentiation of self. How’s that for slim reading?! This is about how to lead from a position of psychological and emotional health! You need this, pastor. Really. Enjoy.

Episode 206 - An Army Chaplain’s Small Church Ministry in Afghanistan

Dec 28, 2016 2298


Chaplain David Craig, Jonny's brother, talks to us all the way from his ministry post in Afghanistan - sharing the importance of ministry to small groups of soldiers in harm's way. This is a unique and special episode!

Episode 205 - How To Withstand Ministry Wounds

Dec 21, 2016 3207


We never say this, but EVERY PASTOR needs this episode! Jeff and Jonny talk with Bill Thrall, a pastor to pastors for decades, about how to pastor and lead in the most healthy way possible. Essentially they discuss how to survive the wounds of ministry, by trusting God and a few others, with YOU. Thrall says our faith is ultimately relational, not behavioral. Bill teaches us how to survive the wounds of ministry by trusting Jesus with not just our own sins, but the sins of others upon us. This is a very important episode.

Episode 204 - Why Wouldn't Every Pastor Want To Be Coached Like This?!

Dec 14, 2016 3388


Jeff talks with Ray Brandon, a Michigan pastor who shares how he gets coached for free, the benefits of coaching, and a great conversation with Jeff, his old boss! Ray planted his church 11 years ago, and just last year planted yet another church through his current church. This is a very practical, small church conversation!

Episode 203 - How Well Do You Resolve Conflict In Your Small Church?

Dec 7, 2016 2493


Jeff and Jonny talk about what has been a recent and most serious conflict between them - while not giving details, they talk about the importance of conflict resolution in pastoral ministry. But folks, it was bad. Really bad. We were afraid even our podcast was in jeopardy! It is so, so important to learn how to resolve conflict in your life and ministry. Too many ministries and partnerships die because conflict is avoided, and separation ensues. This is an important episode!

Episode 202 – Tired of Ministry Water, This Pastor Wanted Real Wine!

Nov 30, 2016 3355


Jeff and Jonny talk with Brian Zahnd, about his experience of moving from watery faith, to rich wine faith. His book, Water To Wine, outlines his 13 year journey to a deeper, richer, fuller faith and ministry. Brian is the pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, MO.

Episode 201 - How Small Church Pastors Can Inspire Kingdom Living

Nov 23, 2016 2340


Jeff and Jonny talk with Ray Hollenbach from about inspiring a Kingdom imagination in our people. Ray shares some questions that will motivate Kingdom living in the lives of our congregation. As always, there's lots of fun too!

Episode 200 - N.T. Wright Provides Amazing Encouragement To Pastors of Small Churches!

Nov 16, 2016 3517


This is an amazing conversation with NT scholar N.T. Wright, author of Surprised By Hope, The Day the Revolution Began, and dozens of other theological works. Tom Wright speaks at length on pastoral ministry in the small church - huge encouragement! Dr. Wright also answers our questions about

Episode 199 - Mixing Theology and Psychology in Pastoral Ministry

Nov 9, 2016 3513


The guys talk to Dr. Jeannine Brown about some deep stuff - interdisciplinary integration between theology and psychology, and other small church ministry junk like that! The is the stuff small church pastors honestly do deal with every day! Jeannine is a New Testament Scholar and Professor of NT at Bethel Seminary in San Diego and St. Paul, MN.

Episode 198 - Your Church In Your Community – Presence Over Programs!

Nov 2, 2016 3489


David Fitch from Northern Seminary in Chicago joins the guys to talk about the 7 disciplines of a church that help them meet Christ where he is already working in the community – thus with him becoming a faithful presence there... for the people. This episode is ultimately practical for the small church pastor to engage!

Episode 197 - Shattering the Myth of a Balanced Life

Oct 26, 2016 2461


Dan Reiland, Executive Pastor at 12stone Church in Lawrenceville GA joins us to talk about the futile pursuit of a balanced life. Isn't that what we are always reaching for? Balance in life and ministry? Maybe balance is not what we should be pursuing though. Maybe there are other goals more worthy... This is a very helpful episode! Fun too!

Episode 196 – Is Your Church Plant A Faithful Presence Of Christ In Your Community?

Oct 19, 2016 3361


The colorful and effervescent Dr. David Fitch from Northern Seminary in Chicago joins Jonny and Jeff in this episode, talking about the guiding presuppositions for his book, Faithful Presence. This is an episode that will get you thinking about what your church is being and doing in your neighborhood – and Fitch is a very fun conversation too!

Episode 195 -The Four Foundations of Discipleship & How To Make A Pastoral Transition In Your 200church

Oct 12, 2016 3779


Ray Hollenbach from joins us to talk about Discipleship Philosophy and Leadership Transitions in a 200church. This is a brand new first time guest - a pastor's coach, college prof, and small church lover! Ray is a delightful man, who transitioned new leadership into his church after serving as lead pastor for 15 years, and has stayed in the church as a member! You are going to love this guy... Jonny and I do!

Episode 194 - Overcoming Evangelism Inertia In Your 200church

Oct 5, 2016 3326


Dave Jacobs from joins the boys to talk about obstacles to evangelism in small churches - and then shares some serious strategies for overcoming them! Jeff's paranoia over Australian animal dangers surfaces again at the end...

Episode 193 - Help! I Pastor An Unhealthy Church!

Sep 28, 2016 3058


Karl "the Shark" Vaters joins Jonny and Jeff to talk about pastoring unhealthy churches and how to do it, and he even gives a ton of advice on what to do if you are an unhealthy pastor! Believe it or not, we try hard to make this an encouraging episode!

Episode 192 - Help! My Church is in Maintenance Mode!

Sep 21, 2016 2919


Pastor Dan "the Animal" Reiland, Executive Pastor of 12Stone Church in Atlanta GA joins Jeff and Jonny talking about 7 signs of a church in maintenance mode, and how to get out of it! Dan brings years of experience to this episode as he helps us to encourage pastors of small churches. Lots of fun too!

Episode 191 - 200churches & College Ministry - A Great Mix!

Sep 14, 2016 2491


College Ministry Pro Jonathan Burgio talks about how a small church can have a ministry on the college campus in their community! Another fun episode with the guys from Elim Fellowship in New York!

Episode 190 - This Small Church is a Big Deal in its Neighborhood

Sep 7, 2016 3170


What a BLAST! Jonny & Jeff talk to Lori Harris, a pastor's wife and church planting partner from Rocky Mount, NC. This episode is certain to surprise you, inspire you, and motivate you to believe that your small church can be a big deal in YOUR neighborhood!

Episode 189 - Transitioning, Leadership, Millennials, and Transparency - Jeff's Talk With A Ministry President!

Aug 31, 2016 3872


Jeff talks with the President of Elim Fellowship, Chris Ball. They have a wide ranging discussion about the next generation of leadership, pastoral struggles, ministry health, and getting help as a pastor - This... is a good one! It's absolutely the stuff that small church pastoral ministry is made of...

Episode 188 - Battling Ministry Frustrations - You Can Be A Winner!

Aug 24, 2016 2893


Jeff and Jonny are joined in the studio by "first call" pastor, Scott Dalen aka - Dirty Scotty D! We talk about frustrations that face especially newer pastors in ministry. We also share some solutions & hope - to encourage you in your good Kingdom work! It's always fun when someone joins us live, in studio. Scotty D is a great guy!

Episode 187 - WARNING - Episode Contains Encouragement Overdose for Small Church Pastors!

Aug 17, 2016 2937


Joe Jansen, from Elim Fellowship in Lima, NY joins us again to provide a virtual overdose of ministry encouragement for pastors of small churches! Joe shares a checklist for assessing your ministry health, and provides a ton of HOPE!

Episode 186 - Emotions In the Workplace and the Pastor's Health – a Conversation with Dr. John Pletcher.mp3

Aug 10, 2016 2758


While Jonny is out, Jeff talks with Dr. John Pletcher, an old friend, about his book, Emoticon-versations: Working Through Our Deepest Places. What emotions do pastors deal with, and how to handle them? A fascinating talk...

Episode 185 - Just When You Needed Encouragement - Cheerleading the Small Church Pastor!

Aug 3, 2016 2620


Jonny is remote in Orange City and Jeff is in the traveling 200churches Studio in NY talking with Joe Jansen, a Champion Cheerleader of small church pastors! You will be encouraged and inspired by their conversation! Joe oversees 170+ pastors all over the U.S. who are part of the Elim Fellowship of Churches. He is a master encourager and small church pastor cheerleader! Enjoy.

Episode 184 - How Vulnerability Actually Empowers Your Ministry!

Jul 27, 2016 3256


Pastor Mandy Smith, from University Christian Church in Cincinnati joins the guys today to talk about her book, The Vulnerable Pastor - How Human Limitations Empower Our Ministry. Ultimately, Mandy reveals that vulnerability is not something we feign or fake, but it's a true description of our reality - we are vulnerable! This very truth can and will empower our pastoral ministry. This is so good and helpful! Enjoy!

Episode 183 - Dynamic Advice On Small Church Worship

Jul 20, 2016 2750


A FANTASTIC conversation to share with your worship leader and entire worship team! A conversation with Jerret Hammons filled with practical worship leading wisdom. Jarret started leading worship at age 13 with his guitar and help from the pastor's wife. You can find all the links to the resources Jarret mentions right here:

Episode 182 - 8 Warning Signs That Your Ministry Is About To Trump Your Family

Jul 13, 2016 2694


This is a very practical episode on the importance of family in ministry. The imperceptibility of the slide of ministry activity into the holy space of family is a reality we must beware of! Dave Jacobs of helps us explore this, and we all share some helpful tips on keeping family first.

Episode 181 - The Vital Importance of Small Church Pastors!

Jul 6, 2016 3051


Michael Nations, founder of The Vital Initiative, joins the guys to once again proclaim the value and importance of small church ministry! Michael is with the Church of God Cleveland, and he travels around the U.S. encouraging pastors of smaller churches. Michael shares his own story of frustration and feelings of failure, and how he turned this around to achieve great influence in encouraging other pastors of small churches in his own denomination. He is recognized by his national denominational leaders as a pastor of value and encouragement to the Church of God!

Episode 180 - How To Think About Volunteers In Your Small Church

Jun 29, 2016 2158


Zach Bauer joins the guys live in the Studio again to talk about his volunteer philosophy at his church plant - Red Door Church in Sioux Falls, SD. Zach gets honest and vulnerable as he shares from his heart in this episode! The conversation centers on the philosophy of volunteers in the smaller church - you will be challenged to think differently about your volunteers - enjoy!!

Episode 179 - A Missionary Wife/Mom: What We Experience When Visiting Churches

Jun 22, 2016 3561


With Jonny on sabbatical, Jeff speaks to Melanie, a missionary wife and young mother about the reality of the "One Year Furlough". Vacation? Or... Uh... Something else?? Some of us pastors might think that the one-year break that missionaries get, every four years, is a vacation. Melanie kindly disagrees with that notion! She speaks, from the wife and mother of young kids perspective, honestly and openly about what her and her husband's experiences have been like in churches and at "home" while on what some call the "home assignment" or "furlough". Melanie even put up with some of my bad joking! YOU as a pastor will learn better how to treat missionaries when they come to your church! I did!

Episode 178 - Ministry With One Hand Tied Behind Your Back

Jun 15, 2016 2736


What a blast we had with Dave Jacobs from! Dave talked with us on the topic of "Doing ministry with one hand tied behind your back." We had just too much fun on the "pre-record" with Dave. Things that will go unmentioned... Jeff and Jonny also talk about their new website upgrade! This is the first major upgrade of the website since January 2013... or... ever! There's even a mysterious infusion of music during the intro to the episode... you'll likely love it! :-) Enjoy this great episode with Dave Jacobs!

Episode 177 - Teaching The Text: A Conversation with NT Scholar Jeannine Brown

Jun 8, 2016 4249


A deep dive into the importance of understanding the text of Scripture in both the theory and practice of small church ministry. Dr. Jeannine Brown joins us to talk about her life's work, NT scholarship & teaching pastors! Jeannine is a New Testament scholar, author, and Seminary professor. She talked with us about her journey to being an author and professor, as well as her work in the New Testament, and especially the commentaries she has written and how they have changed her. The first 55 minutes are the actual episode and the last 15 contain extra material on the changing nature of seminaries and theological education today. This was a huge JOY - to record with Jeannine!

Episode 176 - A Small Church Pastor Making A Big Difference - So Can You!

Jun 1, 2016 2267


Pastor Michael Nations from Clyde, NC joins Jeff and Jonny LIVE in the 200churches Podcast Studio! Michael is the founding director of and is making a difference encouraging small church pastors! We have a new friend! As Michael talked, we resonated with his heart as though he were the 3rd missing brother in the 200churches line-up. I (Jeff) met Michael at the Big Little Church Conference in Portland. We had an absolute blast!

Episode 175 - Powerful & Practical Advice For Crafting Effective Sermons

May 25, 2016 3331


Jeff talks with John Finkelde from as he shares some powerful, essential advice for crafting attention getting, effective sermons! This is a mini seminar on the art of sermon craft!

Episode 174 - Why Pastors Need 200churches!

May 18, 2016 2290


Jeff and Jonny use this episode to talk about the struggles of pastors who pastor churches that are smaller, or that are not growing by leaps and bounds. There's plenty of discouragement to go around in ministry circles - and 200churches seeks to be an oasis of encouragement for pastors of small churches to drink from! This is a podcast by pastors of a 200church, for pastors of a 200church! No exponential, explosive growth going on here, but MUCH and GREAT significance, as our small churches love and serve year after year, decade after decade, making a huge impact for the Kingdom of God in this world! It's time for pastors to hold their heads high, be encouraged, and do the work God has called them to!

Episode 173 - This Bivocational Church Planting Pastor Tells All!

May 11, 2016 2490


Zach is a bivocational pastor and church planter and shares some of the pro's and cons of being bivocational while planting a church, and even after the church tops 100! A fun conversation with Zach and the guys LIVE, in the luxurious and opulent 200churches Podcast Studio! p.s. Are you ever jealous of other pastors and their Facebook bragging on Monday mornings??

Episode 172 - Preaching & Social Media When A Listener Crashes the 200churches Podcast Studio!

May 4, 2016 2829


Scott Dalen crashes the 200churches Podcast Studio and talks to Jeff about preaching, social media usage in small churches, Jeff & Jonny's chemistry, and much more! This was a fun episode where Scotty D sits in Jonny's chair and hogs his mic!

Episode 171 - Worship Ministry from a Small Church Perspective

Apr 27, 2016 3085


Jonny is not too upset that Jeff had a private conversation with worship leader and musician Jeremiah Hollis, from Sydney Australia. Jeremiah has a heart for people, and God has gifted him musically to love them! This is a great conversation about small church worship, from a small church worship guy, who has taken his wife on the road with him and found himself in Orange City IA with Jeff!

Episode 170 - Pastors: We Live at the Intersection of Theology & Culture

Apr 20, 2016 3898


Jeff & Jonny dialogue with Dr. Silas Morgan, who specializes in political theology, and talks with them deeply about the place where pastors live - at the intersection of theology & culture! What kind of politics are we promoting in the body of Christ we serve as pastors? Is it the politics of Jesus and His Kingdom, or do the politics of our culture and society hold court in our churches? This is a very substantial and important episode - we hope you not only enjoy it, but are challenged in your 200church leadership.

Episode 169 - A Transcontinental Preaching Discussion With John Finkelde

Apr 13, 2016 2619


Jeff (with a cameo appearance by Jonny) talks with John Finkelde all about preaching! Jeff dives into John's past preaching experiences and discusses some of his own. We all do it, every week, and John's advice in this episode is sure to dislodge some thinking in your brain about how you approach your own weekend messages. Enjoy! Find John Finkelde at

Episode 168 - 4 Difficult Realities Church Planters Face

Apr 6, 2016 2631


Jonny and Jeff invited Zach Bauer, a South Dakota church planter, to the luxurious and opulent 200churches Podcast Studio... to talk about difficult realities that church planters face. Zach is a class act, and this episode was a ton of fun! And, Jonny gets caught with his hand in the Fridge!

Episode 167 - A Church Planter Shares How He Handled Unrealized Expectations

Mar 30, 2016 2749


Church Planter and Pastor, Chris Vitarelli, joins Jeff and Jonny today to share his frustrations of high expectations unrealized, and how he found satisfaction and joy in his 200church plant! He tells how he formed a small church pastors conference to encourage other pastors who may think their church is "just not big enough!"

Episode 166 - A Theology of How the Church Works - with Scot McKnight

Mar 23, 2016 3421


Jeff and Jonny talk with Dr. Scot McKnight from Northern Seminary about the messages in his book, A Fellowship of Differents! This is a long, rich, theologically alive conversation! Enjoy!

Episode 165 - 4 Reasons Why There's No One Right Way To Do Church

Mar 16, 2016 3313


Do you really believe that there is no "one right way" to do church? Then why are we always looking for other models to emulate? Jeff and Jonny give you 4 reasons why there is no "one right way" - so do your way the best you can, and don't sweat it! Jonny gets pretty liquored up on this episode - he thinks other pastors will fight against this notion, but Jeff is cool and collected. He thinks those mega church pastors know that their way is just one way, and not necessarily the only way. We hope you are challenged and encouraged by this episode!

Episode 164 - How the Church Engages Culture(s) for God's Mission

Mar 9, 2016 3336


Wow! David Fitch from Northern Seminary in Chicago joins us for this discussion about the church engaging culture with the Gospel of the Kingdom! David last joined us on episode 145 - if you haven't listened to it, it's a great one. This is a "must listen to twice" episode! It will challenge you and change you! Enjoy! So much fun too, with a very short, cameo snippet from Scot McKnight.

Episode 163 - 4 Things Church Attenders Want Pastors To Know

Mar 2, 2016 2281


A Classic Jeff & Jonny episode about 4 things people want their pastors to know. This is a vintage small church ministry conversation that you will resonate with if you pastor a church 200 or under! This is a super encouraging episode with material to lift you up and challenge you at the same time.

Episode 162 - Simple Ways To Create Better Church Experiences

Feb 24, 2016 2311


Sometimes the most fundamental principles of a thing get lost in the muddled process... of the thing! The thing Jeff and Jonny talk about in this episode is small church ministry. This episode is not about the team that grew their church to 3,000+, it's about you, in your small church, and the simple things that you can incorporate, tweak, or adjust TODAY, that will make a difference and help you create a more spiritual, relational, and enjoyable experience the next time people step into your 200church!

Episode 161 - 3 Essential Questions Every Pastor Must Answer

Feb 17, 2016 2825


Dave Jacobs joins the guys to talk about the 3 Essential Questions every pastor must answer, in order to keep growing and keep moving forward in both ministry AND life! This was such a fun episode to record, and quite thought provoking.

Episode 160 - Why Your Sermons Should Be Much Longer!

Feb 10, 2016 1964


Jeff and Jonny talk about how to increase the impact of your weekend message. They suggest you start your message on Thursday, and then end it on Wednesday. Your sermon should be much longer, for certain exponential impact! This was a fun one!

Episode 159 - The Hard Work of Growing Your Community Impact

Feb 3, 2016 2753


Jeff and Jonny talk about the two major ways that our churches can increase their community impact. These are not easy, but effective. Absolutely successful, but they describe the hard work of loving people. This episode will challenge your thinking on outreach. BUT - this is an episode that is so applicable whether your church is 10 people, or 2,000 people... but easier to pull off with just 10 people!

Episode 158 - Your Raw Marriage - Pastor, Have You Ever Thought About Your Marriage Like This Before?

Jan 27, 2016 3389


Jonny and Jeff talk with Doug Burford, who is a church planter, counselor, marriage seminar leader, Walk Thru the Bible presenter, and all around great guy! He dissects the marriage relationship and tells us the good, the bad, and ugly! Actually, a very encouraging and enlightening episode!

Episode 157 - How This Real Life Pastor Handled Ministry Adversity

Jan 20, 2016 2913


Regular, normal, 200church pastor Gary Floyd shares the highs and lows, the flash and the fizzle... the nitty and the gritty of small church ministry - all the way from a small New Mexico town to and through the luxurious and opulent 200churches Studio! Another trek through the ministry podcast wilderness with Jeff and Jonny!

Episode 156 - Pastor, Do You Ever Wrestle With These Four Temptations?

Jan 13, 2016 2278


Pastors face all kinds of temptations and none of us is immune from them. In episode 156 Jonny talks with Dan Reiland, Executive Pastor of 12Stone Church in Lawrenceville, GA about four areas of temptation common to not only pastors, but all leaders. This conversation is based on an article that Dan wrote for The Pastor's Coach, an every other week newsletter that he writes for You can sign up for free to receive Dan's Pastor's Coach articles by clicking on this link: Jeff and Jonny have fun recording this episode that culminates in three years of podcasting together for them, and they are so pleased to have Dan Reiland to join them on it!

Episode 155 - Do You Need More Help Handling Ministry Stress?

Jan 6, 2016 3005


Ministry Stress - we all deal with it! Dave Jacobs, from, talks with Jeff about how to mitigate stress in your life as a pastor. You will find in this episode a lot to identify with, along with an ample amount of humor! Jeff and Jonny believe that pastors MUST laugh, a lot and often! So here is ministry encouragement and equipping that, like Mr. Pibb... goes down good!

Episode 154 - Do You Need Help Handling Ministry Stress?

Dec 30, 2015 2879


Stress is a constant in ministry, and is sometimes a challenge to manage. Dave Jacobs joins us to talk about the causes of ministry stress, the effects on us, and how to minimize them!

Episode 153 - A Small Church Pastor Adoption Adventure!

Dec 23, 2015 2378


A personal conversation Jeff has with Jonny via Skype while Jonny and his wife Kayla are on an Adoption Adventure in Florida - during Christmas week 2015! This started as a personal private conversation and ended up as a podcast episode. The entire talk revolves around their adoption of Eliza, their new daughter. Pastor, if you've never adopted, this episode will help you understand the adoptive parents in your 200church!

Episode 152 - The PASTOR LIFE: How Are You Handling the Basics?

Dec 16, 2015 2106


Jeff and Jonny talk about the foundational aspects of THAT PASTOR LIFE. What are the things we need to pay attention to as pastors, if we want health and effectiveness... fruit?! They share ten basics, as suggestions for you to think about - do you need to tend to any of these... hmmmm? Another very fun episode to record - with very serious content!

Episode 151 - Church Health and Growth in a Small Church Context with Carey Nieuwhof

Dec 9, 2015 3774


Jonny and Jeff talk with Carey Nieuwhof about church growth, and church health - in a 200church context. Fun, long, practical, encouraging, and challenging! Carey is a pastor in Ontario Canada and pastors a church that is a Northpoint strategic partner - Connexus Church.

Episode 150 - Do You Have Ministries Ready For the Woodchipper?

Dec 2, 2015 2668


Jonny talks with Dan "The Mentor" Reiland about the ruthless evaluation of church ministries, even to the point of sending some through the wood chipper! An ultimately practical and fun episode! Jeff is not in the conversation with Dan, because he is headed into a snowstorm! He hooks up with Jonny in the post production phase from a remote hotel location...

Episode 149 – 8 Essential Practices To Create Meaningful Change In Your 200Church

Nov 25, 2015 2317


Jeff and Jonny share eight essential practices (we're talkin' about practice, yes, not the game, practice!. We're not talkin bout the game, we're talkin bout practice!) in creating meaningful change in your church. Characteristically interesting, especially practical!

Episode 148 - Do You Know What Visiting Missionaries Need From You & Your Church?

Nov 18, 2015 3127


This episode is a GOLD MINE for you to learn exactly what visiting missionaries need from you while at your church. Missionary Tim talks with Jeff and shares his stories and secrets about how you can make your missionaries' visits a huge success!

Episode 147 - 6 Church Insider Issues You Should No Longer Care About

Nov 11, 2015 2884


Jonny and Jeff talk with Karl Vaters about 6 church insider issues he no longer cares about! These are things that only long time church insiders care about, not anyone else. People outside the church never care about these, and neither should we!

Episode 146 - Igniting Authentic Worship in Your Small Church

Nov 4, 2015 2794


Jeff and Jonny talk with Jeremiah Hollis, an Australian worship leader, about how to ignite authentic and genuine worship in your small church worship experiences. Jeremiah has led worship in their church, and is much loved!

Episode 145 - Missional Ministry & Ministry Growth In Your Small Church

Oct 28, 2015 2946


Jeff and Jonny talk with Dr. David Fitch, author, seminary prof, and pastor in the Chicago area about missional ministry and what it looks like in your small church. A great talk with a great teacher and theology thinker! David will challenge you to think about the possibilities your church has for ministry in your community!

Episode 144 - Five Practices To Increase Your Leadership Clarity

Oct 21, 2015 3115


In episode 144, Jeff and Jonny share five practices that will help you increase the leadership clarity in your small church. These five things are immediately applicable in your 200church context! This episode was a blast to record, and while we have fun, we share some extremely practical ideas that will work everyday in your small church ministry.

Episode 143 - Does It Hurt You When People Leave Your Church?

Oct 14, 2015 3430


Wow - Jonny and Jeff talk with Dave Jacobs from about the effects and pain on the pastor when people leave the church. This is a powerful and practical episode! Dave coaches small church pastors every day - you need the encouragement he offers in this episode.

Episode 142 - Generating New Ideas In Your Small Church

Oct 7, 2015 2658


Jeff and Jonny share their take on how to generate new ideas in your 200church. The very simple things are often the most profound - so they talk about the fundamental elements for new ideas, as well as fantasy football, gambling, church crises, and even reimagining your current ministries.

Episode 141 - A Conversation On Church Vision - Senior Pastors - & Children's Ministry

Sep 30, 2015 3580


Melissa J MacDonald joins Jonny and Jeff on this episode to talk about the importance of Children's Ministry, but more, how the Senior Pastor must lead in this area of his/her church. A FANTASTIC episode! Tons of Fun and Encouragement!

Episode 140 - Your Church Family Deserves A Great Church!

Sep 23, 2015 1678


Jonny and Jeff record from Vail, Colorado and share why they think your small church can be just as great as any larger church. Size does not dictate quality - love and the Gospel do!

Episode 139 - 5 Huge Words of Wisdom For Young Pastors... and Old!

Sep 16, 2015 2846


Jonny and Jeff talk again with John Finkelde about the 5 pieces of advice that he would definitely give to young pastors. This is a very fun, encouraging, and practical episode! And... they do mention Trump, Billiards, and Air Strikes!

Episode 138 - What Is The DNA Of Your Church?

Sep 9, 2015 2262


Jeff and Jonny are back, after going four months in the summer of 2015 without recording together! They talk about what the DNA of their church is. This is a fun and encouraging episode, in a new and improved studio!

Episode 137 - Being That Church That Loves the People Jesus Loved

Sep 2, 2015 2948


Jeff has a conversation with Rob Tarnoviski, a pastor from Philadelphia, who shares his passion to reach the kind of people most churches do not want to reach. Is your church a safe place for "notorious sinners"? Episode 137 is "jonny-less". Schedules prevented from Jonny appearing on this episode, but he will be back in full force for episode 138!

Episode 136 - A Successful Strategy At Your New Church Ministry - and Old!

Aug 26, 2015 2770


A great episode with Dave Ronan, Christian and Military leadership expert - on the subject of starting out at your new church. A real must for younger leaders to understand!

Episode 135 - How To Work With a Dysfunctional Small Church Board

Aug 19, 2015 1651


Jeff and Jonny talk with Small Church Pastor Coach Dave Jacobs about what to do if your board is dysfunctional. This is a "best of" episode all the way back from episode 58! In this month, August 2015, we are pulling up four "best of" episodes from our "most listened to" archives. You'll enjoy it!

Episode 134 - Talking Diversity & Reconciliation in the Body of Christ with Christena Cleveland

Aug 12, 2015 2726


This is a special August 2015 "best of" episode! With a new intro and outro, this conversation is taken from episode 86 - one of our highest rated episodes! Jonny and Jeff talk with Dr. Christena Cleveland about diversity and reconciliation issues within the small church in America. We talk about issues many of us do not think about in the normal course of our ministries!

Episode 133 - One Pastor's Journey With Depression

Aug 5, 2015 2349


Jonny & Jeff talk with David Craig, Jonny's Dad, about his journey in ministry with depression. This is a very honest and helpful discussion about something that so many suffer with in silence.

Episode 132 - Leading People - The Pastor's Constant Challenge

Jul 29, 2015 2416


This episode is the part two, the conclusion, of Jeff and Jonny's conversation with Christian counselor Deon Wynia. Deon talks about how to navigate leadership when you are in the people business. Deon focuses on the pastor's attitude toward the people, and the struggles within himself or herself as he or she faces challenges and opposition.

Episode 131 - Trust - The Active Ingredient In Pastoral Leadership

Jul 22, 2015 2382


Jonny and Jeff talk with Deon Wynia, a counselor who works with churches on reconciliation and trust issues between pastors and people, and pastors and church leaders. This is an awesome conversation with key leadership lessons you can begin to practice today!

Episode 130 - Key Considerations For Staying At Or Leaving Your Small Church Ministry

Jul 15, 2015 2042


Jeff and Jonny talk about the things you should consider if you are struggling with the Should I stay or should I go? question. What should or shouldn't you consider? A fun, helpful, practical, and encouraging episode!

Episode 129 - Ministry Skills 101 - How To Manage Offending and Being Offended In Ministry

Jul 8, 2015 2822


Jeff and Jonny talk again with your Pastor Coach, Dave Jacobs, from SmallChurchPastor.Com - this time about how to offend less, and be less offended, in your small church ministry. A great conversation that will challenge and encourage you!

Episode 128 - Practical Tips For Managing Your Ministry Time

Jul 1, 2015 1965


This is a fun episode with John Finkelde from talking about how to thrive in a time-poor society. This will both challenge and encourage you!

Episode 127 - Confined No More - Impacting Your Community Beyond Your Building.mp3

Jun 24, 2015 2348


This is a great episode with Karl "the Shark" Vaters, a small church pastor in Fountain Valley, CA. Karl talks with us about doing ministry beyond the walls of the church. This is a great episode to get your creative pastoral juices flowing!

Episode 126 - Listener Q&A With Dan Reiland!

Jun 17, 2015 2260


Dan Reiland answers listeners' questions on the horn with Jeff and Jonny. A number of you gave us some great questions for Dan, and he answers every one of them! We know you will be challenged by this episode.

Episode 125 - Four Ideas To Refresh Your Ministry.mp3

Jun 10, 2015 1893


Episode 124 - The Wonder of Children's Ministry In a 200church!

Jun 3, 2015 2637


Jeff and Jonny's Children's Ministry Director, Jen, is live in the luxurious and opulent 200churches Podcast studio to talk Kid's Ministry - the wonder, the philosophy, and the magic of working with kids! This is geared for pastors to better understand the challenge their Children's Ministry workers face each and every week. This episode was a ton of fun!

Episode 123 - The 8 Proven Ways For Turning Volunteers Into Leaders

May 27, 2015 1990


Jonny talks with the Guru of, John Finkelde! He talks about how to turn volunteers into leaders - in 8 steps. This is very small church oriented training filled with great ideas and wisdom! You'll also learn a little from Jeff's ignorance of animals native to the land down under...

Episode 122 - How To Be Less Misunderstood As A Pastor

May 20, 2015 2143


Small Church Pastor Coach Dave Jacobs joins us with some golden wisdom on how to reduce the misunderstandings in ministry. This is a fun, encouraging, and equipping episode for you as a small church pastor! Enjoy!

Episode 121 - How To Freshen Up Your Sunday Morning Experience!

May 13, 2015 2319


Dan "The Animal" Reiland joins the guys for this episode and talks about the evaluative questions to ask in assessing your Sunday morning experience. This is a very full, often serious, yet also humorous and fun episode. You will be both encouraged and challenged. We promise!

Episode 120 - High Octane Ministry Encouragement from a Real Live Small Church Pastor!

May 6, 2015 2399


Ryan Perz returns to the studio (see episode 17) to talk with the guys about the joys and rigors of small church ministry, straight out of the trenches of his small church of 55! High octane ministry encouragement!

Episode 119 - Keep the Volunteer Pipeline Flowing For Successful Ministry Successions

Apr 29, 2015 2259


With Jeff sick, Jonny pulls off a masterful performance with Australian Pastor Coach and Mentor, John Finkelde! They talk about how to create positive ministry successions in your small church, and keep the volunteer pipeline flowing. John is the founder of

Episode 118 - Working On Contentment In Small Church Ministry

Apr 22, 2015 1974


Nathan Stob joins Jeff and Jonny in studio for a great conversation about being content as a small church pastor. Are we so focused on the "not yet" that we are missing the "already" right in front of us??!!

Episode 117 - Insights On Preparing Your Worship Services

Apr 15, 2015 2752


Dan Reiland joins the guys to talk about the mystery of the worship service. This is a great dive into the pastoral side of the worship experience. You should be challenged with this content to consider how much soul prep goes into your services!

Episode 116 - How To Be A Small Ego Pastor

Apr 11, 2015 2564


What a crazy ride we had getting this episode out! Jeff got a flat tire on his way back from a hospital visit to record with Jonny and Dave, then Jeff got so sick it went out 3 days late! This should be a good one! We talk about the importance of humility in ministry.

Episode 115 - How To Maintain Momentum During Your Church's Off-Season

Apr 1, 2015 2258


Jonny and Jeff share some ideas for keeping your church moving forward during the summer months, or whenever your church's off-season is. Keep some forward motion so you don't have to start a new church year from a dead stand still! Also, Jonny again viciously attacks Jeff for no apparent reason. Jeff is investigating possible litigious action against him.

Episode 114 - Pastoral Ministry - Life Giving or Life Draining?

Mar 25, 2015 3182


Jonny and Jeff talk with pastor, and 200churches listener, Paul Kuzma about his journey from ministry health, to burnout, back to ministry health. He encourages ministry that is life giving for the pastor, not life draining!

Episode 113 - Launching Ministry Initiatives That Truly Require Faith

Mar 18, 2015 2187


This is a somewhat wild episode, with Jonny in a car to Minneapolis, Jeff in the Studio, and Dan Reiland in his Atlanta office. Dan talks about ministry initiatives that truly require FAITH. Dan's church launched five new campuses this past January, and as we talk about this, we try to have it all scaled to the small church pastor!

Episode 112 - The Heart And Soul Of The Pastor - Can I Trust God With Me?

Mar 11, 2015 3136


This is an episode for the soul and the heart of the pastor. Bill Thrall trains and encourages Christian leaders and pastors, and has been for over twenty years. We cannot even describe this episode... just listen. We had to listen a couple times! Two Questions to intro the episode: 1) Who does God say that I am? 2) Can I trust God with me?

Episode 111 - The Vision Thing - In Your Small Church!

Mar 4, 2015 2461


This episode is full of helpful content! Jeff and Jonny lead off with something they are currently trying at their church, then Dave Jacobs joins them to talk about vision, then they finish with practical vision talk from their 200church. You are sure to be challenged as a pastor as you listen to this episode - hopefully with encouragement, and toward creative thinking.

Episode 110 - Even When It Hurts - Straight Talk On Your Leadership Team

Feb 25, 2015 2251


Jeff and Jonny share with you a very personal conversation they had recently, when Jonny challenged Jeff regarding his preaching. You want to have people around you who will challenge you to be your very best, even when it hurts! Jeff wrote about this on the 2-20-2015 200churches Blog, and now Jonny tells his side in this episode.

Episode 109 - Five Questions To Ask When Your Church Is Not Growing

Feb 18, 2015 2255


The Pastor's Coach, Dan Reiland, returns to the podcast to help us evaluate why our church may not be growing. Dan asks five questions about what just might have us stuck - understanding that God decides the size of our churches! This is a fun episode!

Episode 108 - A Deep Dive Into the Fundamentals of a Healthy Church

Feb 11, 2015 2326


On episode 107 Karl Vaters cited health as the third alternative for a small church - today Jeff and Jonny take a deep dive into exactly what a healthy church looks like! Clear and practical, they paint the picture of church health...

Episode 107 - A Third Alternative To "Grow It Or Close It"

Feb 4, 2015 2844


Karl "the Shark" Vaters joins Jonny and Jeff to talk about a third option to "grow it or close it" for small churches. What if you pastor a small church, and it isn't growing numerically, but you don't want to close it? Is there a third option? Yes there is!

Episode 106 - Beyond Burnout - This Pastor Turned Psychologist Offers Hope!

Jan 28, 2015 3455


Dr. Mike Ferguson joins Jeff to talk about his passion to help small church pastors with burnout, depression, and loneliness. Dr. Mike pastored for 20 years, burned out, recovered, and then became a psychologist to help pastors and churches! This episode rocks and gives hope at the same time! And yes, Jonny is highly insulted and put out for not being in on the call with Mike…

Episode 105 - Leading Transitions and Change in Your Small Church

Jan 21, 2015 2188


Jonny and Jeff talk with Jonny's friend Sam, who shares how his pastor led him in a staffing transition from one role to another, with great success! Great lessons for leading change in your 200church! Along with some classic humor, of course...

Episode 104 – The Challenge of Pastoring Toxic People in Your 200Church

Jan 14, 2015 3340


Small Church Pastor Coach Dave Jacobs rejoins Jonny and Jeff to talk about the challenge of toxic people in our churches, and how to handle them. The worst thing you could do is ignore them!

Episode 103 - How To Think About Visitors and Finances in Your Small Church

Jan 7, 2015 3297


The guys kick off 2015 with a bang by talking to Australian Pastor John Finkelde. John and his wife Di coach and consult with pastors and churches. You're gonna love this one!! We promise! We are thrilled to be able to share this episode with you to encourage and support you as a small church pastor.

Episode 102 - Why Small Church Pastors Need Encouragement!

Dec 31, 2014 1591


Jeff and Jonny share an end of year podcast episode on the last day of 2014! They talk about why their mission is to encourage pastors, and what they hope to accomplish in 2015... with appropriate humor, of course!

Episode 101 - Two Ministry Hacks To Immediately Improve Your Ministry

Dec 24, 2014 1687


Jeff and Jonny give you two simple ministry hacks that will immediately begin to improve your ministry. If you want to narrow the focus of your ministry energy, this episode will help and encourage you!

Episode 100 - Valuing Volunteers in Your 200church!

Dec 17, 2014 1820


Jeff and Jonny use episode 100 to talk about valuing volunteers. We are to equip our people to do the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ. They share three ways to value volunteers in a small church!

Episode 99 - The Skinny On How Small Church Pastors Should Really Treat Visiting Missionaries

Dec 10, 2014 2503


This episode features a conversation with "John Smith" who serves as a missionary in a dangerous part of the world. We talk about how pastors can do a better job with visiting missionaries to their church... and more!

Episode 98 - Small Church Pastors Should Fail To Succeed!

Dec 3, 2014 1565


This is a Jeff and Jonny solo episode! They encourage small church pastors to step through failure to success. If you've failed recently, this episode is for you. With their classic relational chemistry, they provide a very fun, encouraging, and challenging episode!

Episode 97 - The Wonder of the Small Church Pastor!

Nov 26, 2014 2846


We say it all the time, but this episode is one of the best of the 97 episodes we have released! Dr. John Stumbo is the President of our denomination, the Christian & Missionary Alliance - and we talk with him about the importance and wonder of the small church pastorate. You WILL BE encouraged by this episode. Enjoy!

Episode 96 - Ten Great Numbers To Count In Your Small Church

Nov 19, 2014 2310


Another great episode with Dan Reiland, Executive Pastor at 12Stone Church in Lawrenceville, GA, and former Vice President of John Maxwell's Injoy company. This conversation is based on a blog post by Dan called "10 'Different Numbers' That Really Matter". This is a fun episode that will both entertain and encourage you!

Episode 95 - Wise Words From A Seasoned Leader

Nov 12, 2014 2940


Jonny & Jeff are back in the 200churches Podcast Studio for the first time following Jeff's son's accident. Doug is in rehab as this is recorded. Jeff gives a short update on his son's progress, then they play a conversation Jeff had with "John Smith", a pastor/missionary in a country where he must remain anonymous. "John" gives very wise words to pastors regarding life and marriage in ministry.

Episode 94 - 15 Years In His 200church - A Conversation With A Pastor Listener

Nov 5, 2014 2630


Jeff and Jonny talk with 200church Pastor Chad Payne. Chad has served for 15 years in his 200church and talks about the blessings and battles of pastoral ministry. You will be encouraged and challenged!

Episode 93 - Have You Evaluated Your Preaching Lately? A Conversation with Dave Jacobs

Oct 31, 2014 2388


Jeff shares some personal words on a family crisis, and then he and Jonny talk with Dave Jacobs from about the subject of preaching. This is the first time the topic of preaching has been discussed on the podcast - to our knowledge. You will enjoy it and be challenged!

Special Episode - The Worst Week of My Life

Oct 22, 2014 596


Jeff shares some words from his heart about his son, Douglas.

Episode 92 - To the Brink and Back: How Suffering Produces Lifechange - A Conversation with Dr. John Stumbo

Oct 15, 2014 2747


Jonny and Jeff talk with a pastor who faced down death, recovered, and experienced significant life-change and growth through the process. John Stumbo tells his story, and also, conveniently happens to be the president of their denomination! John shares an amazing story in a very open and transparent way.

Episode 91 - Leadership Talk: Going Rogue With Dan Reiland

Oct 8, 2014 2242


On this episode, Jeff and Jonny talk off the cuff with Dan Reiland, asking him how he structures his day, leads his staff, gets stuff done, manages his time, etc. This is an encouraging, inspiring conversation with a great leader!

Episode 90 - How Your Small Church Can Help Stop The Ebola Virus!

Oct 1, 2014 2212


Jeff and Jonny talk with Living Water International CEO, Mike Mantel, about the seriousness of the Ebola virus in West Africa, and what our small churches can actually do to help make a difference! Yes, YOUR small church is needed in this to make a difference, save lives, and spread the Gospel!

Episode 89 - Full Time Students Full Time Pastors – Jeff & Jonny’s Story

Sep 24, 2014 3478


Jonny and Jeff talk with Danielle Dworak, the lady who helped them through their years at Bethel Seminary! Danielle is involved in student development with pastors and church leaders who are working on their Master's degrees while remaining in full time ministry. Danielle knows the good, bad, and ugly of the journey!

Episode 88 - Mental Health: When Depression Visits the Pastor

Sep 17, 2014 2686


Jeff and Jonny talk with David Craig, Jonny's pastor father, about his decades-long silent struggle with Depression. David shares the good, the bad, and the ugly, and offers hope to you if you have also been a silent struggler. It's time for you to get help! (He also tells a good story about when Jonny was a little boy!)

Episode 87 - Erik's Journey To Personal Pastoral Health

Sep 10, 2014 2439


Jonny and Jeff talk with their friend, Erik Anderson - a pastor in St. Paul, MN. Erik talks about getting to the edge of complete burnout, and how he was able to avoid falling off the cliff - and work himself back to good personal health in ministry.

Episode 86 - Better Together: Pursuing Diversity In Your Small Church

Sep 3, 2014 2832


Jeff and Jonny talk with author and professor Christena Cleveland about the message of her book, Disunity In Christ - Uncovering the Hidden Forces That Keep Us Apart. We talked with Christena in person in St. Paul, MN. This is a phenomenal conversation about the wonder of the Body of Christ and why we should actively pursue diversity in churches, in every area, even our own small church!

Episode 85 - Can A Small Church Also Be A Great Church?

Aug 27, 2014 2215


Can you have a great church, even though it might be a small church? Karl Vaters from joins Jeff and Jonny, and the three of them insist, YES! Greatness is within your grasp as a small church - a 200church! There are significant leadership and ministry principles shared in this episode - enjoy.

Episode 84 - The Future of 200churches - A Personal Podcast From Jeff & Jonny

Aug 20, 2014 2036


Jeff and Jonny get personal and talk about their vision for the future of 200churches. After more than a year and a half, their passion for small churches could not be stronger! No guests today - just Jeff and Jonny, from the heart.

Episode 83 – Two Crucial Steps To Breaking Your Pornography Addiction

Aug 13, 2014 2432


Nathan Stob joins Jonny and Jeff live in the 200churches Studio for this episode. Nathan is a social worker, community leader, father of triplets, and director of an organization committed to helping people back onto the road of life! Together, these guys reveal the two steps that are absolutely necessary to rid yourself of pornography addiction.

Episode 82 - How To Develop A More Outward Focused Church

Aug 6, 2014 2236


From the start of this episode, Jonny and Jeff are joined by Small Church Pastor Coach Dave Jacobs - where they talk about how to develop a more outward focused church. This just does not happen naturally, unfortunately. Surprisingly, the first person we need to work on is the pastor - ourselves!

Episode 81 - A Conversation With The Voice Of The 200churches Podcast!

Jul 30, 2014 2459


Angela, the voice of the 200churches Podcast comes on to talk about what it was like for her and her husband to church shop when they moved to our town, and why they eventually chose our church. Lots of humor and insight for small church pastors!

Episode 80 - 5 Great Leadership Characteristics For A Small Church Pastor

Jul 23, 2014 2813


Jonny and Jeff again team up with Dan "the Enforcer" Reiland! This is a content-rich episode that will leave you thinking, and give you fresh ideas on how to be a great pastor/leader in your 200church! You'll love this episode, we did!

Episode 79 - Straight Talk For The Small Church Pastor - Solid Gold!

Jul 16, 2014 2958


Jonny and Jeff visit their District Superintendent and ask him all the questions you would have asked if you were in the room with them. Doug Grogan was called out of a four-month retirement at 65 to re-engage as a District Superintendent. The man is a sage!

Episode 78 - Being Small Is Not One Of Your Church's Problems!

Jul 9, 2014 2026


Small Churches dot the globe, taking the Kingdom everywhere. It is God's amazing strategy. We have many problems we must deal with in our 200churches, but being small is not one of them. Karl Vaters talks with Jeff and Jonny about the astonishing power of small churches!

Episode 77 - How Pastoral Coaching Could Really Help You

Jul 2, 2014 2014


Jeff is sans Jonny on this episode, but he makes it through with the help of his Pastoral Coach, Dave Jacobs! Dave shares in this episode the inside scoop on what he does with small church pastors and their boards every day of the week. Have you ever considered having a pastoral coach? You should!

Episode 76 - Practical Pastoral Wisdom After A Quarter Century In The Same 200church

Jun 25, 2014 2641


In his 26th year of pastoral ministry in the same church, Scott "The Leader" Carson shares practical pastoral wisdom that has served him and his church well. He talks with Jonny and Jeff about change, community involvement, raising kids in ministry, the challenge of staying fresh, and more. YOU are about to be encouraged!

Episode 75 - How To Solve Problems, One At A Time, In Your 200church

Jun 18, 2014 2628


What a great and inspiring conversation this is with Dan Reiland, the Pastor's Coach. We had a blast talking with Dan about how to approach problem solving in a small church, in ways that actually solve problems! If you are a small church pastor, this is for you baby! Dan gives such killer leadership advice tailored to the small church pastor - no translation or adaption needed. You'll love it!

Episode 74 - How To Multiply Workplace Missionaries In Your Small Church

Jun 11, 2014 1995


Jeff and Jonny talk with John Pletcher, another attendee of the Super-Secret Pastor's Retreat Jeff attended. John's book, Henry's Glory: A Story for Discovering Lasting Significance in Your Daily Work, is the topic of their conversation. It's an awesome episode that will motivate you to unleash your people as workplace missionaries!

Episode 73 - Why You Don't Have To Be Afraid of the 200 Barrier

Jun 4, 2014 2169


Karl "the Shark" Vaters talks with Jonny and Jeff yet again about why some churches simply will never break the 200 barrier - and Karl hates that word "barrier". As small church pastors, we can never hear enough how important and vital our churches are to the Kingdom of God! Jeff also talks about their elder's meeting the night before...

Episode 72 - How To "Crush It!" In Leadership When Beginning A New Ministry

May 28, 2014 2661


Jeff & Jonny share a very fun intro, then Jeff talks with Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Dave Ronan about leadership in a small church. Dave is a former missionary, seminary professor, and current teacher of Air Force foreign military advisors. He has some great lessons for pastors in new ministry positions!

Episode 71 - How To Handle Financial Pressures In Your 200church

May 21, 2014 2280


Jonny and Jeff talk with Dave Jacobs, ministry coach to small church pastors, about the struggles pastors face when financial pressures are present in their small church. Don't face your financial burdens alone! Jeff and Jonny challenge you to find an advisor who can walk with you through the struggles.

Episode 70 - Lessons From Two Laymen - What Every Pastor Needs To Hear

May 14, 2014 2340


This episode contains perspectives from two laymen that will challenge and encourage you, as well as give you ideas for your own 200church ministry. A conversation with Pastor Mark Meyers and his guys Steve Etcher, and Tory Vestal from Grace Bible Church in Warrenton, MO.

Episode 69 - The Very Active Ingredient of a Healthy & Vibrant 200church

May 7, 2014 2180


Jeff recounts his exclusive pastor's retreat experience and Jonny's attempted coup in his absence. Karl Vaters then joins the guys to talk about the one condition for small churches to be healthy and effective! Yes, YOUR church can do awesome Kingdom business right in your community by meeting this one condition...

Episode 68 - The Essential Five: Priorities For A Small Church Pastor

Apr 30, 2014 2322


Jonny and Jeff talk with Dave Jacobs about how in the world to set priorities as a small church pastor - in an encouraging and liberating way! Dave lays out a great plan than any one of us could follow. Encouraging, practical, and helpful!

Episode 67 - How To Start Smart As A Young Pastor

Apr 23, 2014 2475


This episode is applicable to all pastors, but is intentionally directed to the YOUNG PASTORS who listen to the podcast. We talk with Dan Reiland about starting smart as a young leader, and also add a lot of content for young pastors on either end of our conversation with Dan.

Episode 66 - How One Pastor Survived Burnout In His Urban 200church

Apr 16, 2014 2752


Jonny and Jeff talk to Kevin Pringle about his inner city church and how he survived burnout only to equip his church family to do real ministry! This is an encouraging story of how God answered this pastor's cry for help.

Episode 65 - Us 200church Pastors Love Megachurches Too!

Apr 9, 2014 2080


Karl "The Shark" Vaters joins us as we discuss megachurches, why we love them, and how we can benefit from them without feeling inferior... or small! Some great ways to think about megachurches!

Episode 64 - The Pastor's Secret To Breaking Sin's Power

Apr 2, 2014 2520


Jonny and Jeff have a conversation with the author of The Cure, John Lynch. They talk at length about a pastor's struggles, and the secret to breaking the power of sin and temptation.

Episode 63 - Three Dangers That Small Churches Face

Mar 26, 2014 1873


Jeff and Jonny have a great conversation with Dan "The Enforcer" Reiland about three dangers that small churches face. This is a positive look at how small churches can avoid these dangers! Dan is on this entire episode and shares some fun personal stories.

Episode 62 - What Are You Afraid Of? Facing Your Ministry Fears

Mar 19, 2014 1813


Jonny and Jeff record this late night episode around a pre-recorded conversation with's Dave Jacobs. They talk about fear in the ministry - how to face, and fight, fear. This may be a great episode to share with another pastor you know is struggling with fear!

Episode 61 - How Not To Impress God as a 200church Pastor

Mar 12, 2014 1947


John Lynch, from joins Jeff and Jonny live, in-studio to talk about the life of grace - we don't have to please or impress God to get him to approve of us. This is a spiritual episode that will encourage your heart as a pastor and a person whom God loves! This is a very fun episode as Steve the church member also joins the guys in the studio.

Episode 60 - Small Church Pastors Should Stand Tall!

Mar 5, 2014 1984


Jeff and Jonny are joined by The Shark, Karl Vaters. They talk about the importance of small churches, and about the pastors who lead them. This episode is a small church pastor super pep-talk!

Episode 59 - Six Big Words For Small Church Leaders

Feb 26, 2014 2248


Jonny and Jeff are joined by Dan Reiland, the Pastor's Coach, as they talk about six big words for small church leaders. This episode is packed with humor, encouragement, and solid ministry training!

Episode 58 – What To Do If You Have A Dysfunctional Board

Feb 19, 2014 1922


Jonny and Jeff talk dysfunctional boards with Small Church Pastor Coach Dave Jacobs. (Disclaimer: not that we pastors aren't dysfunctional!) If you are struggling with your board, Dave, Jonny, and Jeff share some encouragement with you in this episode.

Episode 57 - Your Church IS Big Enough!

Feb 12, 2014 2128


Jeff and Jonny are again joined by Karl "The Shark" Vaters for a phenomenally encouraging conversation focused on building up pastors of small churches! Thank you, Karl from!

Episode 56 - Brandon Cox Talks Church Planting and

Feb 5, 2014 2162


Jeff and Jonny share a few ministry ideas on either end of this conversation with Brandon Cox, church planter and content manager of They talk small church, church planting,, leadership, and more!

Episode 55 - Six Words For Small Churches with Dan Reiland

Jan 29, 2014 1970


Jonny and Jeff talk with Dan Reiland about some very cool dynamics of small churches - 6 Words For Small Churches! Dan joins the guys every last Wednesday of the month. Dan is the executive pastor at 12stone Church in Lawrenceville GA.

Episode 54 - Are You Wired For Your Church In These 3 Areas?

Jan 22, 2014 1632


Jonny and Jeff talk about understanding how you are wired for ministry in three areas: your church/church culture, your staff/leadership, and your style of presenting God's Word each week. They are open and honest about their struggle with this week's episode and also include some additional humor and relational banter... :)

Episode 53 - The Highest Priority of a Small Church Pastor - with Dave Jacobs

Jan 15, 2014 1660


Jonny and Jeff talk with's Dave Jacobs about the absolute highest priority of a small church pastor, or any pastor! What is it that you should make top shelf in your life and ministry? Find out in this episode. For a living - Dave Jacobs coaches pastors of small churches, and in this episode provides incredible insight...

Episode 52 - Super, Awesome, Fantastical Lessons We're Learning For A New Year!

Jan 8, 2014 1680


Jonny and Jeff share some lessons that they are leaning into as they embark on ministry together in 2014 in their 200church. Jeff created the title, then Jonny dressed it up with some adjectives on the front end. Can you tell?! This is a very practical and encouraging episode that will challenge you with some basic ministry principles that we too easily forget.

Episode 51 - Help! We're Small Church Pastors - with Karl Vaters

Jan 1, 2014 2086


Happy New Year to YOU!! Today is the first Wednesday of the month, and in 2014 the first Wednesday means we will be joined in part or in whole by Karl Vaters! Part, as in "part of the episode", not part of Karl! Karl brings a ton of small church moxie to the conversation, which we believe will be encouraging to you as a 200church pastor. Karl is the pastor of Cornerstone Christian Fellowship in Fountain Valley, CA.

Episode 50 - Training and Mentoring Leaders with Dan Reiland

Dec 25, 2013 1717


In episode 50, Jeff and Jonny talk with Dan Reiland about training and mentoring leaders. This is Part 5 of their 2013 series with Dan, the Pastor's Coach. Great pastoral leadership principles are discussed with great chemistry, and a fair amount of humor!

Episode 49 - Small Church Pastor To-Do and Not-To-Do Lists for 2014

Dec 18, 2013 1858


On a short clip with Dave Jackson, Jeff and Jonny talk about how 200churches began. They started something - their podcast and blog - almost one year ago. In light of that, they talk about starting and stopping things in the new year... 2014. Encouraging and entertaining!

Episode 48 - Dave Jackson Talks Podcasting and Small Church Ministry

Dec 11, 2013 2458


Jonny and Jeff are joined by Dave Jackson, an 8-year veteran podcaster who weighs in on his small church experiences, as well as his assessment of how good a job Jeff and Jonny are doing with the Podcast! As usual, there is a lot of small church talk and encouragement.

Episode 47 - Social Media in Small Churches with Erik Fisher

Dec 4, 2013 3150


This is a jam-packed episode with great leadership lessons, a conversation with Erik Fisher from on the topic of social media and ministry - and so much more! This is the longest episode to date, so plan on listening to it in sections. There is plenty of content here to challenge you and encourage you in your leadership role!

Episode 46 - Dan Reiland Talks Amplified Leadership Part 4/5

Nov 27, 2013 1696


On this Thanksgiving week episode, Jeff and Jonny again talk with Dan Reiland about raising up young leaders. They have a special announcement to make about Dan Reiland... long term! They also talk about their podcast and website - and the holidays!

Episode 45 - Cynthia Moore - 20 Years Serving the Same Rural Church!

Nov 20, 2013 2424


In this episode Jeff & Jonny are joined by a real life, 200church pastor who has served the same rural church for twenty years! Cynthia Moore pastors a church down a gravel road, and shares the challenges and blessings of small church ministry. In another very open conversation on ministry, Cynthia admits that 100 people is a banner day in her church. Her and Jeff share a special connection...

Episode 44 - The Pastor's Self-Care with Dave Jacobs from

Nov 13, 2013 2869


Dave Jacobs, a coach to small church pastors and boards, joins Jonny and Jeff to talk about the importance of the pastor's self-care and soul-care. This is a great conversation with a guy who coaches pastors for a living! He knows us inside and out, and shares what he believes most about pastors, that their soul for Jesus is most important.

Episode 43 - Small Church Pastors and Pornography Addiction

Nov 6, 2013 1899


In this episode Jonny and Jeff are joined by their friend Nathan Stob, the Director of Atlas Ministries in their town. Nathan counsels and helps men in their community with all kinds of life issues, including porn addiction. This is a serious discussion of the spiritual silent killer: porn. If you struggle with this, or if you need to help others who struggle, we know this episode will help and encourage you.

Episode 42 - Dan Reiland Talks Amplified Leadership Part 3

Oct 30, 2013 1933


What a great episode with our friend Dan Reiland from 12Stone Church! In this episode Dan talks to us about everything from trimming back our ministries to increase our impact - to the difference between equipping and developing our people. Jeff and Jonny think this could be the best 200churches Podcast episode yet!

Episode 41 - Karl Vaters Talks Small Church Ministry In Croatia

Oct 23, 2013 2045


Jonny and Jeff talk with Karl Vaters about his trip to Croatia to speak to small church pastors on the pro-small church message of his book, The Grasshopper Myth. He found church leaders who were hungry for his message, and Karl filled them with hope and affirmation. Karl also talks about his ministry on an American Army base in Germany...

Episode 40 - Jim Powell Talks Church Culture & His Book, Dirt Matters

Oct 16, 2013 2507


This episode is a great conversation about the culture of a church with Jim Powell from and Richwoods Christian Church. Jim is the author of Dirt Matters and we discuss how understanding and shaping the culture of your church is crucial to church health and growth!

Episode 39 - Pastor Rob's 17 Year Ministry Grind - Part 2

Oct 9, 2013 2223


This is Part 2, and the conclusion of Jeff's conversation with Rob Tarnoviski, Lead Pastor of Bethel Fellowship, The Church at Franklin Mills, Philadelphia, PA. They talk about the importance of fit between a pastor and a ministry, and how crucial it is for a church to minister contextually in their community. Jeff also threatens to replace Jonny with Rob...

Episode 38 - Pastor Rob's 17 Year Ministry Grind - We Try Stuff

Oct 2, 2013 1902


This episode is Part 1 of a two part conversation between Jeff and Rob Tarnoviski, Lead Pastor of Bethel Fellowship - The Church at Franklin Mills, in Philadelphia PA. Rob and Jeff have been best friends for 30 years, yet have been serving in very different contexts. This episode includes some personal conversation never intended for the podcast. Finally, it seems that Jonny is a bit jealous of their friendship, who knows?! He'll get over it...

Episode 37 - Dan Reiland Talks Amplified Leadership Part 2

Sep 25, 2013 1917


This is the second of five episodes with Dan Reiland, author of Amplified Leadership: 5 Practices To Establish Influence, Build People, and Impact Others For A Lifetime. Dan talks with Jeff and Jonny about building people as you recruit and develop leaders. Dan is the Executive Pastor at 12Stone Church in Lawrenceville, GA.

Episode 36 - How Group Dynamics Creates That Dreaded 200 Barrier And What To Do About It

Sep 18, 2013 1736


In this episode, Jeff and Jonny discuss the issue of church size, group dynamics, and how both create that annoying 200 barrier in most churches. They key off an article by Timothy Keller. They also have their first hint of conflict ever on the podcast, after 35 peaceful episodes!

Episode 35 - Avoiding Distractions That Take Us Off Course

Sep 11, 2013 1238


New podcast theme music debuts in this episode! Jonny and Jeff talk about how to avoid being thrown off course by those frequent and even necessary distractions in ministry. Momentum is important and they talk about how not to lose it.

Episode 34 - Raising Children In Ministry: The Pastor's Kids!

Sep 4, 2013 1659


Jeff and Jonny talk about pastor's kids, and are joined by Jeff's son, Doug. Doug and Jonny are both pastor's kids and have grown up in a ministry family. Jonny has two preschool sons, and Jeff has three adult children, and one at home. In this episode, you get both perspectives, raising pastor's kids, and being one!

Episode 33 - Dan Reiland Talks About Amplified Leadership - Part 1/5

Aug 28, 2013 1784


Jeff and Jonny talk with Dan Reiland, Executive Pastor of 12Stone Church in Lawrenceville, GA, and author of Amplified Leadership. This is the first of five episodes that will be released on the last Wednesdays of August through December 2013. Dan focuses in on how pastors can best raise up leaders to join them in the work of the ministry.

Episode 32 - Why You Should Explore Creative Communication Methods

Aug 21, 2013 1706


Jeff and Jonny talk about the importance of creatively communicating God's word every weekend. With some tongue-in-cheek humor, and a lot of passion, they explain why creativity and change actually honors God's word and keeps people engaged.

Episode 31 - Founder of Talks Small Church Ministry

Aug 14, 2013 1993


Jeff and Jonny talk with Karl Vaters, a 200church pastor from Orange County, CA and founder of, a blog devoted to Small Church ministry. This is only 30 minutes of an almost hour long conversation we enjoyed. Karl is full of vision and energy, and most importantly, passion for the body of Christ! Karl will definitely be back to join us again on the podcast!

Episode 30 - Why Both Your Strengths AND Your Weaknesses Make Your Ministry

Aug 7, 2013 1534


We often view strengths as positive and weaknesses as negative. Jeff and Jonny talk about the benefits of both, and why you want to keep your weaknesses! This is a great "perspective" episode, to help you appreciate how God has uniquely created you for your leadership position in your 200church. They also have a little fun along the way...

Episode 29 - Isolated Pastors and the Heart of 200churches

Jul 31, 2013 1066


In this episode, Jeff and Jonny share their hearts as they describe their vision for 200churches. They believe that as pastors, you can get enough training, education, and information – but you cannot get enough encouragement and inspiration! They share how they want to encourage, inspire, and support you as a 200church pastor! They also talk about how easy a pastor can find him or herself isolated in ministry.

Episode 28 - Why You Should Encourage Conflict Among The Leaders Of Your 200church

Jul 24, 2013 1549


Who wants conflict? Well, just anyone who wants to find the best solution, the greatest idea, or the most effective method! In this episode, Jonny and Jeff talk about why a pastor of a 200church should encourage, utilize, and manage positive conflict with his or her church leadership. Conflict exists whether we recognize it or not. We should leverage it to provide better leadership for our church.

Episode 27 - How To Resolve Any Disagreement In Ministry

Jul 17, 2013 1475


Personalities clash, preferences collide, pride swells, and ministry leaders disagree - what to do about it? So many churches suffer, split, or even dissolve because church leaders do not resolve conflicts and differences. Jeff and Jonny share ten steps that will allow you to resolve any disagreement in your 200church ministry.

Episode 26 - Four Challenges To Boldness In MInistry and Why You Should Create A Stir

Jul 10, 2013 1261


Do you pander, hedge your bets, or back off potentially controversial issues? In this episode Jonny and Jeff talk about speaking boldly in your 200church. You might think it would be easier to be bold if you had more people, and could afford to lose a few, but wimping out or pandering to big givers or strong personalities are things that all pastors struggle with at one time or another... better to be bold and create a stir!

Episode 25 - How To Turn Around A Messy 200church

Jul 3, 2013 1766


Jonny and Jeff are joined by Greg Atkinson, the Campus Pastor at Forest Park Carthage, near Joplin MO. Greg is an author and speaker, but his heart is in the local church and he is first a pastor. Greg shares what it took for him to turn his messy 200church around.

Episode 24 - How To Lead and Influence Older People As A Young Leader

Jun 26, 2013 1510


Jeff and Jonny answer a question sent in by Tyler Eiland. He asked about how to lead people in his church who have been attending the church he pastors for twice as long as he has been alive... Good question Tyler! Many of us younger leaders have to deal with that reality. The guys give 8 ideas for leading and influencing the older people in your church.

Episode 23 - Five Technologies Every 200church Must Engage With

Jun 19, 2013 1210


Jonny and Jeff talk about social media that every 200church must engage with. It's easier than ever to stay connected with people, we just have to do it. Here are five social media technologies that your church must engage with, or be left out...

Episode 22 - How To Give Clean Water For Life To 30K People

Jun 12, 2013 1627


Jeff and Jonny talk with Steve Spear, a former Willow Creek pastoral staff member, and current TEAM World Vision volunteer who is running across America to raise 1.5 million dollars to provide clean water for life to an African community of 30 thousand people. Steve is in West Texas as this is recorded, and just completed a 30 mile day, most through a dust storm!

Episode 21 - The Lessons We Learned At The Chick-fil-A Leadercast

Jun 5, 2013 1161


Jeff and Jonny share their experience and the lessons they learned at the Chick-fil-A Leadercast on May 10, 2013. They comment on the speakers, the value of leadership development, and the advantage of being monkey buddies.

Episode 20 - How Do Twenty-Somethings View The Church?

May 29, 2013 1393


Jonny and Jeff are joined by Robert, a recent attender to their church. Robert is a pastor's kid, who became disillusioned with the church as a young adult, and stepped away from it for about seven years. Rob joins the discussion to talk about what his generation wishes the church would do!

Episode 19 - How To Encourage Your People

May 22, 2013 1174


Jeff and Jonny are joined by David Craig, who is to blame for Jonny! Jonny's Dad talks about his experiences over forty years of pastoring 200churches, and his new book, The Gospel According to Molly. They generally discuss ways to encourage your church family as a pastor.

Episode 18 - 5 Signs You Might Be A Plastic Pastor And What To Do About It

May 15, 2013 1205


Jeff and Jonny talk about the warning signs of plasticity in pastoral ministry. Are you a "Plasti-Pastor"? Jonny calls them "Ken Doll" pastors, and Jeff just thinks they're phonies. The tendency toward plasticity haunts us all as pastors, and they give some suggestions at the end of the podcast for how to get back into our own skin.

Episode 17 - The Pros and Cons of Small Church Ministry

May 8, 2013 1193


In this episode Jeff and Jonny are joined by Ryan Perz, a pastor of a 200church... of 50! Ryan joins the conversation, sharing some of his background and the thing he has in common with Jonny and Jeff, as they discuss the pros and cons of ministry in a smaller church.

Episode 16 - Antidote For A Selfish Church

May 1, 2013 1149


In this episode Jonny and Jeff define what a selfish church is, maybe not what you're thinking. They then talk about the antidote, what can turn a selfish church into an outward focused church.

Episode 15 - Our Fantasy Sunday Morning Service

Apr 24, 2013 928


In this episode Jeff and Jonny share their fantasy Sunday morning service - and the unrealistic expectations that accompany it. Then they share four expectations we can all see fulfilled every Sunday morning, no matter the size or make-up of our church.

Episode 14 - 8 Ways To Build Relationships With Your Church Board

Apr 17, 2013 1219


In this episode we welcome a cameo appearance by Michael Hyatt, and play a clip from his podcast to set up our discussion on how to build relationships with your church board, so that you can work together to effect change in your church.

Episode 13 - What Real Ministry Looks Like

Apr 9, 2013 1086


Jeff and Jonny talk with Chris Nye, a pastor from the Portland, OR area. Chris wrote a Leadership Journal article called The New Televangelists, and that is the topic of their conversation.

Episode 12 - What Makes a Pastor Want to Leave?

Apr 3, 2013 1093


The hymn says, "Prone to wander, Lord I feel it..." and in this episode Jonny and Jeff talk about the things that make a pastor want to leave their church, and think that the grass is really going to be greener at the next place...

Episode 11 - Integrating Your Church Into the Community

Mar 26, 2013 994


Jeff and Jonny talk about the challenge of integrating your church into the community. The goal is a church that, if gone, the community would really, really miss! They talk about the challenge of breaking down the barrier between the church and the community. This is a Part 1 of what will, over time, become a multiple episode discussion.

Episode 10 - Working With Volunteer Leaders

Mar 19, 2013 1268


In this episode, Jeff and Jonny welcome Jan Schuiteman to the podcast! Jan has been an elder, and a leader at almost every level at our church for the past 30 years. Jan is a businessman who believes that business, life, ministry, church are all the same. Jan is a good friend, trusted mentor, and revolutionary thinker. He speaks as a volunteer leader - to our 200church pastors.

Episode 09 - Positive Approaches to your Prayer Shortage

Mar 12, 2013 1230


Jonny and Jeff talk about the five reasons why they find themselves in a prayer shortage, and how to approach and overcome them.

Episode 08 - How To Balance our Personal Life, Family Time, and Ministry Responsibilities

Mar 6, 2013 1169


In this episode Jeff & Jonny talk about the challenge of managing our time to give honor to our personal lives, our family time, and our ministry responsibilities.

Episode 07 - Creating a Welcoming Atmosphere

Feb 27, 2013 1141


In this episode Jonny and Jeff talk about creating a welcoming environment in your church regardless of the extent of your resources.

Episode 06 - Getting New People Involved in Ministry ASAP

Feb 19, 2013 1234


In this episode, Jeff and Jonny talk about what stands in the way of getting new people involved in a ministry quickly, and how to move beyond those obstacles to get new people plugged in ASAP.

Episode 05 - Brian Hanson and Gatekeepers Ministry

Feb 12, 2013 991


Brian Hansen, director of Gatekeepers ministry dropped by this week to talk a bit about equipping church leaders and laypeople to minister to those in their sphere of influence.

Episode 04 - Cultivating Good Staff Relationships

Feb 5, 2013 1330


In this episode of the 200churches podcast, Jonny and Jeff talk about the importance of having good staff relationships and give some tips on how to cultivate those relationships.

Episode 03 - How to Handle People Leaving Your Church

Jan 29, 2013 843


In this episode, Jeff and Jonny talk about how to handle people leaving your church. It's inevitable in a 200church that people will cycle in and out,, so we have some tips for how to best manage those changes.

Episode 02 - Handling the Sacred Cows in Your Church

Jan 22, 2013 929


In this episode of 200churches, Jonny and Jeff talk about "sacred cows" in our churches and how to effectively deal with those areas that seem too tough to change.

Episode 01 - Not as Bad as it Used to Be

Jan 18, 2013 530


In this episode, Jeff and Jonny talk about their motivation for creating 200churches and how to avoid being a church that settles for "not as bad as it used to be."

Episode 00 - What is 200churches?

Jan 16, 2013 570


In this first episode, Jeff and Jonny talk about the vision for the 200churches Podcast and blog at exists to encourage, support, and affirm pastors of smaller churches, and the importance of their ministries and churches in the Kingdom of God!